Luthien & Galadriel

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yeah but Celeborn had thousands of years to grow accustomed to Gala's beauty. Beren was in the glorious infatuation stage.

Luthien had it all, yes? Ah, Luthien and Beren; inspiring envy in everyone for millenia!

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Are you forgetting that Luthien actually bested Finrod's claim not long after. She had Sauron by the throat, and if she hadn't been as kind-hearted as she was, there would never have been a Ring for Frodo to destroy...

And are you forgetting that she had Sauron by the throat only because she had Huan at her side. It was Huan who couldn't be bested by prophecy. Morgoth was a dumb *** & allowed his lust to cloud his judgement. Sauron on the other hand was more cunning than his master & recognized Luthien for what she is. Had Huan been absent, Sauron would've slapped her silly. She may have sent Morgoth to lala land but that was a careless invite on his part.
Galadriel may not have done something dramatic as she had but she was someone to be reckoned with. Tolkien, again described her as the "greatest of elven women". Sure Luthien injected a divine substance to men but it continued only because of Galadriel who gave birth to Celebrian who in turn gave birth to Evenstar who chose a similar fate to Luthien. I'm not suggesting that she's greater than her, but perhaps atleast on the same league. And how can the elves be diminished in mind & body when the Three Elven rings brought healing & halt of weariness? It's even more absurd to say that the weilders themselves have been more diminished because they longed for the sea. Only Galadriel had this longing & in no way did it affect her native might. Perhaps, by the power of Nenya, she foresaw the fall of Sauron only by the means that she must give up her ring of power & this made all the more enthused to go home.

[Thinlómien]

I'll put now my word on the topic.

Galadriel and Lúthien can't be compared. Not only because Lúthien is half-"divine" and Galadriel is "just" an elf. The other reason is that their power is quite different. Lúthien's powers are more in "personal level"; her powers have great effects in eye-against-eye -combat or in things considering herself: she makes Morgoth fall asleep, she drives Sauron away, she moves Mandos, she grows her hair by a spell, she's absolutely charming... See? All her "spells" or powers concentrate on a single enemy or on herself.
Galadriel (with Nenya) has smaller, but larger-scale effects. She ensafes Lórien and protects it by her and the ring's magic. She can see future, past and present (with her mirror). She is "an affecting world power", if I can say so.

And one more thing that came into my mind: Galadriel may seem more powerful, because she is more powerful due to her environment. In the Third Age (when she's in the height of her powers, mostly because Nenya) the most powerful being is Sauron, who's a maia. When Lúthien lives the most powerful being in M-E + Beleriand is Morgoth, who's a vala. And in Lúthiens times there are more powerful people, fg. elves are generally more powerful.

[Lalwendë]

Galadriel in the Middle earth of the Third Age is incredibly powerful because she is a 'big fish in a small pond'. She has sought power throughout her time in Middle earth, and eventually has come to set up her own realm, an enclave which she rules. She had the Elessar given to her by Celebrimbor, who then created something of even greater power, Nenya, as a gift to impress her. His gifts to her are each more powerful than the last, and he does this in the hope of winning her love (seemingly) by giving her more and more power.

We do not know to what levels of strength the Elves in the Undying Lands have grown while Galadriel is in exile, but we must assume that due to her exile she is in some way less than they are. Eru's intention is for the Elves to all live in the Undying Lands, and this is seen as natural for them - as seen in how they are reborn in the Halls of Mandos and to refuse this is considered wrong. In addition, she was one of those who left the Undying Lands to go to Middle earth, which was also a wrongdoing. Galadriel has willingly removed herself from the land where she is supposed to be, and therefore has done wrong so cannot be seen as 'good' as her kin who did not leave.

When she says that she will 'diminish' and return, she is saying that she will give up the power she has achieved in Middle earth and she will go back to the place where she will not be a ruler, a leader, someone of immense power. She will go back to the place where she is just one amongst many.

I don't know where this places her in terms of 'power' compared to Luthien, but then I think in Tolkien's world it is more about qualities than power. After all, we see how a humble Hobbit can destroy something supposedly more powerful. Is it more a question of who had the greater status?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I find the idea of Galadriel as a "big fish in a small pond" very appropriate, Lalwendë! However, I'm not sure I agree with this statement:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Eru's intention is for the Elves to all live in the Undying Lands

Originally, the Elves were created to live in Middle-earth, just as Men were. There have been previous discussions on the decision of the Valar to bring them to the Undying Lands - was it unwise? If anything, I would say that Eru intended for them to remove to the Undying Lands after death. However, that is not the same thing as being "intended to live" there.

I too think that Lúthien's innate power, quality, and/or status, whichever way it's worded, puts her above Galadriel. However, Galadriel developed and strengthened the power she had and put it to the best use. That sounds a bit like the debates over the relative importance of inner characteristics and/or outer influences in what we become. The answer, as so often, is "both".

[daeron]

Luthien was selfish. Galadriel was not.
Atleast Luthien wouln't have done anything if foolish old Beren had not got himself in that sticky situation. And dragging Finrod too.

[davem]

This 'power' thing is a difficult question if it's limited to a question of 'force'. Certainly, there is an 'enhancement' of innate power which comes from having once dwelt in the Undying Lands - as we see with Glorfindel, who had seen the Two Trees: the Light of Aman was in his face.

Galadriel had also seen the Light of the Trees & the Light of Aman would have been in her face as well, & that Light was Holy, & evil things could not stand before it. However, unlike Glorfindel, Galadriel had never passed to Mandos to be purified of her sin in the Rebellion, so she would probably not have had his innate power sans Nenya.

Luthien, on the other hand, was the daughter of a Maiar, but had not dwelt in the West, or seen the Light of the Trees - though her father had.

More interesting, I think, is the fact that in the end, both Luthien & Galadriel reject power: Luthien chooses mortality, Galadriel to 'diminish'. Power is clearly not the be all & end all for either of them. Luthien chooses love (& mortality) over power & Galadriel to 'diminish' & go into the West, where rather than an absolute monarch she will become merely a returning penitent seeking forgiveness.