Why Entwives? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

vanwalossien · 06-22-2005, 02:12 PM

In Norwegian as well, mann means husband as well as man, and kone (and also the slighty less formal kjerring

) means both wife (usually this) or (old) woman. Like arcticstorm pointed out about the entmaidens, the term kone won't be used about young women, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the woman is married.

Fordim Hedgethistle · 06-23-2005, 06:31 AM

Good on you for referring to the OED Bb -- I agree: this is a point of language.

But you neglected to give the translation for "ent" which is Old English for "giant". So the names of the actors involved are "giant" and "giant-woman".

But I can't help but think that Tolkien liked the use of "wife" insofar as he was aware of the modern connotations of the word, and of the resonances that it would have with his audience.

Mithalwen · 06-26-2005, 11:08 AM

Perhaps also the modern meaning of "wife" heightens the sorrows of their separation - makes it seem more profound and "unnatural" - the separation of spouses rather than genders. It empahsises the individual personal tragedies within the widser catastrophe for the species.

Nimrodel_9 · 06-27-2005, 12:27 PM

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Rather funny, though, as they are claimed to be so domineering over their gardens, that they should be so 'owned' themselves.

It's kinda like that today.

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Perhaps 'Entwife' was the Ents' name for them, but not their name for themselves?

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Hmm, maybe to the lady ents the Ent men were called Enthusbands?

Maybe that's it. Much like the hobbits. They call themselves hobbits, but most men call them halflings.

Frodo Baggins · 11-19-2005, 07:17 PM

Gurthang, you mentioned that Ent-woman could have been translated as Entwife to Elvish. Is the Elvish word for woman the same as the word for wife? I think wive in Sindarin is Hervess but I do not remember.

Gurthang · 11-19-2005, 07:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Frodo Baggins

Gurthang, you mentioned that Ent-woman could have been translated as Entwife to Elvish. Is the Elvish word for woman the same as the word for wife? I think wive in Sindarin is Hervess but I do not remember.

Then you probably know better than me, because I have not studied into translation at all. I was simply giving a theory I had just thought of. I was really rather hoping that someone more knowledgable would come and either confirm my thought or set me straight.

malkatoj · 11-19-2005, 09:06 PM

To me, the term 'Entwife' gives me a sense of a responsibility that the Entwives had for the Ents and vice versa. It adds to the idea of abandonment; the image of a 'married couple' that comes from the word 'wife' makes it feel wrong for them to be gone. It brings me to a moral dilemma, about marraige and leaving. Perhaps Tolkien meant it to do this?

06-22-2005, 02:12 PM	#1
vanwalossien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: middle of Nowhere/Norway Posts: 372	Wives/women In Norwegian as well, mann means husband as well as man, and kone (and also the slighty less formal kjerring ) means both wife (usually this) or (old) woman. Like arcticstorm pointed out about the entmaidens, the term kone won't be used about young women, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the woman is married. __________________ "The ships hung in the air in much the same way as bricks don't"

06-23-2005, 06:31 AM	#2
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	Good on you for referring to the OED Bb -- I agree: this is a point of language. But you neglected to give the translation for "ent" which is Old English for "giant". So the names of the actors involved are "giant" and "giant-woman". But I can't help but think that Tolkien liked the use of "wife" insofar as he was aware of the modern connotations of the word, and of the resonances that it would have with his audience. __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

06-26-2005, 11:08 AM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Perhaps also the modern meaning of "wife" heightens the sorrows of their separation - makes it seem more profound and "unnatural" - the separation of spouses rather than genders. It empahsises the individual personal tragedies within the widser catastrophe for the species. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

11-19-2005, 07:17 PM	#5
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Gurthang, you mentioned that Ent-woman could have been translated as Entwife to Elvish. Is the Elvish word for woman the same as the word for wife? I think wive in Sindarin is Hervess but I do not remember. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

11-19-2005, 09:06 PM	#7
malkatoj Wight Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A hovel in Florin Posts: 173	To me, the term 'Entwife' gives me a sense of a responsibility that the Entwives had for the Ents and vice versa. It adds to the idea of abandonment; the image of a 'married couple' that comes from the word 'wife' makes it feel wrong for them to be gone. It brings me to a moral dilemma, about marraige and leaving. Perhaps Tolkien meant it to do this? __________________ Now, mostly dead is slightly alive. Now, all dead...well, with all dead, there's usually only one thing that you can do--Go through his clothes and look for loose change.

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