bombadils influence on our reading of the narrative - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Essex · 05-27-2005, 01:06 PM

I also love the old forest / bombadil chapters, and have already given my point on this thread a few months back. But I can't let Boromir's point lie

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Where they are different is Treebeard does something to help out in the War, Bombadil doesn't.

Bombadil indirectly saves Middle-earth. I've said this about a million times already so sorry if you've already read this dirge.....

Hobbits get caught by Wight

Bombail saves the hobbits (saves middle-earth for the first time - the wights had been woken up by the Witch King's presence. what would happen when the wight got the Ring? I'll leave the math to you....)

Bombadil gives Merry his Sword from the barrow

Merry helps slay the Witch King with the sword (bombadil has indirectly possible saved Minas Tirith as an aside)

No death of Witch King - no argument between the two Orc trackers who would have then undoubtedly found Frodo and Sam. Capture of Frodo, capture of Ring, end of Middle-earth as we know it.

Well done Bombadil - You helped save Middle-earth.....

Kath · 05-27-2005, 02:21 PM

My word Essex I had never thought of Bombadil as being such an important character before!

Personally I like him and his songs, but I always saw him as an amusing diversion, though one that introduced the dangerous element of the world beyond the Shire so it wouldn't be such a shock when we met up with the Black Riders at Bree.

Lalwendë · 05-27-2005, 03:43 PM

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but then I don't go much for magic and old religion either (apart form a fondness for the Cerne Giant ...

Perhaps the purpose of the Cerne Giant was to make you think in exactly that way...

Essex makes a good point about Merry's sword coming from the Barrow. I wonder if Tolkien had this in mind all along, or if it was a happy coincidence arising from the story?

cookieman · 05-27-2005, 04:47 PM

I believe Tom is connected somehow to Aule. Aule was the lord over all substances of which Arda is made. He was a smith. Aule created the dwarves, and Tom bears some resemblance to a dwarf. Perhaps Tom is one of the Maiar, similar to Gandalf, but with different powers and dwells in ME for a different purpose. He may have taken a form similar to dwarves out of respect for Aule. Gandalf is a "steward". Maybe Tom is also a steward in a sense. Whereas Gandalf is more concerned with men and elves, maybe Tom is more interested in trees and the earth itself. (I don't know why he would have boundaries though.) Sauron would not be able to defeat Aule, but he would be able to strive with and possibly defeat another Maiar. Goldberry, also is called the river daughter, she may aslo be another of the Maiar. I can see many possible explanations for this line of thought.

littlemanpoet · 05-27-2005, 10:42 PM

Welcome to the Downs, cookieman. I hope you enjoy being Dead. The connection of Tom Bombadil to Aulë is a new idea to me, which is quite refreshing since just about every other idea has already been forwarded here at the Downs. The long and the short of it though is that Tolkien apparently wanted Bombadil to be an enigma and refused to explain what he is. As Goldberry said, "He is."

Kuruharan · 05-27-2005, 10:58 PM

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The connection of Tom Bombadil to Aulë is a new idea to me

Here is the most famous argument for Bombadil being Aule.

littlemanpoet · 05-27-2005, 11:08 PM

Wow, Kuruharan! I actually owned that magazine issue at one time! (Mythlore #47) - but I forgot about the Aulë connection. Thanks for a trip down memory lane.

Mithalwen · 05-28-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Perhaps the purpose of the Cerne Giant was to make you think in exactly that way...

? I have no idea what you mean... seriously ....... I just remember as a young child asking my parents one of those questions and not getting an answer...

As for Mr Bombadil ... if he were Aule ... surely he could have done something about the ring?

Lalwendë · 05-28-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

? I have no idea what you mean... seriously ....... I just remember as a young child asking my parents one of those questions and not getting an answer...

Well, maybe the 'appearance' of the Giant is meant to impress people, and so make them fall into following whatever ways those who painted him were following? That is, as long as he was not a later medieval crude 'joke'...

Mithalwen · 05-28-2005, 11:54 AM

I suspect the joke ..... well he always makes me laugh....as does
the idea of people ... err trying his power - and he is sometimes put to good use for World Aids Day.. They are strange in Dorset you know..... and have a strange sense of humour ..

cookieman · 05-28-2005, 03:15 PM

I'm not saying that Bombadil was Aule, but he may have been to Aule as Osse was to Ulmo. (Just a possibility.)

05-27-2005, 02:21 PM	#2
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	My word Essex I had never thought of Bombadil as being such an important character before! Personally I like him and his songs, but I always saw him as an amusing diversion, though one that introduced the dangerous element of the world beyond the Shire so it wouldn't be such a shock when we met up with the Black Riders at Bree. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

05-28-2005, 11:54 AM	#10
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	I suspect the joke ..... well he always makes me laugh....as does the idea of people ... err trying his power - and he is sometimes put to good use for World Aids Day.. They are strange in Dorset you know..... and have a strange sense of humour .. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

05-28-2005, 03:15 PM	#11
cookieman Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 15	I'm not saying that Bombadil was Aule, but he may have been to Aule as Osse was to Ulmo. (Just a possibility.) Last edited by cookieman; 05-28-2005 at 11:46 PM.

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05-27-2005, 04:47 PM	#4
cookieman Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 15	I believe Tom is connected somehow to Aule. Aule was the lord over all substances of which Arda is made. He was a smith. Aule created the dwarves, and Tom bears some resemblance to a dwarf. Perhaps Tom is one of the Maiar, similar to Gandalf, but with different powers and dwells in ME for a different purpose. He may have taken a form similar to dwarves out of respect for Aule. Gandalf is a "steward". Maybe Tom is also a steward in a sense. Whereas Gandalf is more concerned with men and elves, maybe Tom is more interested in trees and the earth itself. (I don't know why he would have boundaries though.) Sauron would not be able to defeat Aule, but he would be able to strive with and possibly defeat another Maiar. Goldberry, also is called the river daughter, she may aslo be another of the Maiar. I can see many possible explanations for this line of thought.

05-27-2005, 10:42 PM	#5
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Welcome to the Downs, cookieman. I hope you enjoy being Dead. The connection of Tom Bombadil to Aulë is a new idea to me, which is quite refreshing since just about every other idea has already been forwarded here at the Downs. The long and the short of it though is that Tolkien apparently wanted Bombadil to be an enigma and refused to explain what he is. As Goldberry said, "He is."

05-27-2005, 11:08 PM	#7
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Wow, Kuruharan! I actually owned that magazine issue at one time! (Mythlore #47) - but I forgot about the Aulë connection. Thanks for a trip down memory lane.