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#1 | ||||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Where to start? certainly it seems as if this is a ‘transitional’ chapter, merely intended to get the characters from Henneth Annun to the Mountains. CT points out that Tolkien added in an extra day in this chapter to bring the chronology into line with events on the other side of the Anduin, hence the slow build up of menace in this chapter, with the gradual darkening of the skies & the slow increase of the ‘darkness of Mordor’ spilling over the Mountains. Another example of serendipity.
Another thing he mentions is that the staffs given to the Hobbits by Faramir originally had heads like shepherd’s crooks. One wonders why Tolkien changed his mind about this - perhaps the religious symbolism of the Bishop’s Crozier seemed too blatant? As Esty has pointed out, the ‘virtue’ placed on the staffs is quite interesting - placed by whom? Does this mean the staffs are ‘magical’? Also, what is the significance, if any, of the fact that both Frodo & Sam will lose their staffs by the end of this volume, at the darkest, most desperate point in their story up to then? Is Tolkien using the loss (& in one case the breaking) of the staffs to emphasise the hopelessness of the Hobbits state at that point, implying that the virtue of the staffs may have failed, & that there may be no ‘finding’ or ‘returning’? The most significant incident in this chapter for me used to be the moment at the Cross-roads, but now its something else. As many of you may know, I’m a member of the Tolkien Society, & I’ve been to their annual Oxonmoot weekend in September for the last three years. The culmination of the weekend is Enyalie (sp?), when we visit Tolkien & Edith’s grave. Every year there is a short reading from the book, & at my first visit to Tolkien’s final resting place it was the passage where Frodo & Sam said farewell to Faramir, so this chapter is far from insignificant to me - in fact, it is now one of the most significant in the whole book.... Faramir’s final farewell to Frodo & Sam struck me also this time - Quote:
Whatever, we do see Gollum’s growing malice surfacing: Quote:
Something else caught my attention: Quote:
Then we have Sam’s dream: Quote:
The Garden is overgrown & rank, & is slowly being invaded by thorns & bracken - chaos is reasserting itself, the fragile work of ‘humans’, their struggle to keep the wild in check, is failing. Its interesting that he is looking for his pipe, symbolic of the comforts of home. The ‘garden’ is being absorbed back into unconscious nature, ‘Home’ will at this rate soon be no more.... Finally we encounter the statue of the King (which one?) at the cross-roads. Obviously the head, with it’s single eye, symbolises Sauron. Sauron is the new ‘king’. Yet its interesting that his ‘head’ stands on the body of another - perhaps a symbol of the effect of his power, & by extension the power of the Ring, which takes over the mind (the ‘head’) of the individual, & dominates them....Yet, though the ‘head’ is cast down it regains its crown. This moment for Frodo seems to be for him what Sam’s later glimpse of the single star will be for him - both of them are given an insight into the nature of reality (in Middle-earth at least) - there is high beauty which no Shadow can forever conquer. Yet the ‘light’ of that realisation is taken away almost instantly. As for the Cross-roads, well, cross-roads have always been symbolic places. They are places of choice, places where decisions must be made. In a sense they aare also places ‘outside the world’ - suicides were often buried at Cross-roads, perhaps in the belief that the restless spirit would become confused by the multiple choices. However, I don’t think we can entirely dismiss the Christian symbolism of the Cross here. We have a ‘King’ whose body is broken, & on whose head is a ‘crown’ - not of thorns but of flowers. The King will come again. because, as Frodo says ‘They cannot conquer forever!’ |
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#2 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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I was just thinking about the manner of the Hobbits' parting from Faramir, and how similar it was to partings from the Elves.
Certainly it is a lot different to the parting from Galadriel which is extremely elaborate. The earlier parting was almost ceremonial in tone, with gifts, song and even a communion or sacrament of sorts. Though Galadriel never makes the gesture of kissing anyone on the forehead. The parting from Faramir is simple as we might expect on the dangerous and wild edges of Mordor, yet it is also more intimate and has a touching air of finality about it. From here, there is little or no chance that the Hobbits will see another friendly face. The departure from Rivendell is very sombre, in contrast to that from Lothlorien, yet again, it is quite different to the departure from Faramir. It is witnessed by many, and both Elrond and Bilbo make sure to offer words of wisdom and advice. I noted how at every stopping off point the Hobbits seemed to acquire more gifts to help them on their way. Of course, many of these also help with the progress of the story, getting them out of tight spots and so on, but by the end, at Mount Doom, they have very few of these gifts left. The gifts do not burden them, it is the weight of the Ring which is the problem, whether literal or in the mind, and right at the end this is the one 'gift' which Frodo finds impossible to cast aside. He has help from all quarters both in terms of gifts and assistance, yet he throws all aside at that last moment as he cannot cast aside the Ring.
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#3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME)
Posts: 612
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I actually like this chapter simlpy because of the crossroads. Probably because it is another one of those unexpected things. You are surprised when Faramir enters the story but afterwards you think its over with surprises because it seems pretty straightforward. Frodo and Sam go through Mordor and the ring is destroyed. You also assume that things will get darker and darker. They do but before that Frodo and Sam arrive at the crossroads and they see that the King has a crown.
It is not just a crown. Its a crown of flowers.Flowers don't only symbolize happiness and good(vs. evil). They are alive opposed to many things that side with evil.The things that ally themselves with evil are often half dead or twisted. These flowers are of course neither of those things. They are also white which symbolizes purity and a new beginning. Thus it gives a message of hope to the reader. I also cherish this moment because it is the last somewhat peaceful minute that Frodo and Sam will share before going through the Morgul vale.
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#4 | |||
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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Some very interesting thoughts here! Thanks for sharing them everyone.
Estelyn said Quote:
Quote:
On the other hand, this gloom does seem to effect Frodo and Sam, and again mention is made of Frodo sleeping, possibly dreaming but mentioning Gandalf once more. Yes, Faramir appears to have little need of sleep! That does seem elven. Another section that stood out regarding Faramir was this one: Quote:
davem - You brought up some interesting food for thought. I had not noticed that Frodo said goodbye to Sam in the same way as Faramir. It would seem fitting for Frodo to do this before sailing west if it were indeed a Numenorean custom! And I particularly enjoyed the all the thoughts on the crossroads and the king with his crown of flowers. But as for Estelyn’s puzzler about the rumbling, I suspect it may have something to do with the neighbours kicking up there heels there in Minas Morgul! |
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#5 | ||
Bittersweet Symphony
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
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It's interesting how again we have the requirement of blindfolding. In Lorien Gimli had to be blindfolded and Aragorn chose to avoid conflict by taking this upon the whole of the Company. Here, Gollum must have his eyes bound, and Frodo this time tries to prove to him that there is nothing to fear by having Faramir's men do the same to Sam and himself. It seems Frodo has been taking a leaf out of Aragorn's book.
I love the description of the gathering darkness and the scenery: Quote:
Another passage I love: Quote:
![]() But about the excerpt itself: the Sun was originally created to check the power of Morgoth; it is like a damper on the power of evil. The Sun is veiled and is sinking along with the chances of Men's victory. The power of evil is overwhelming it. The one thing that yet seems pure, untouched, is the Sea -- which, as we all know, leads to hidden Valinor. "They cannot conquer for ever!" Frodo says in a single line which embodies it all. Nothing is permanent, not the time of the glory of the Elves, but also not the dominance of evil. |
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#6 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Quote:
Quote:
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#7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME)
Posts: 612
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Although Gollum might have heard what Frodo said his dark side of his nature was taking over again. This dark side might have made Gollum twist Frodo's words. Or he also could have decided that he would forget these words since they would only complicate the desicion of taking the hobbits to Shelob or not.
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