Saruman's economic infrastructure unexplained? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tuor of Gondolin · 04-16-2005, 08:42 PM

Interesting Dol Guldor theory, But wasn't it destroyed by the
White Council? On the other hand, orcs were clearly still in force
in much of the Misty Mountains, to send forces to join in
attacking the Fellowship.

And it's rather remarkable to consider what is actually
potentially the geopolitical centrality of Orthanc at what seems
at first glance an insignificant backwater. Perhaps Saruman's
policies weren't as ridiculously improbable as they seem in retrospect,
even if the Ring had remained hidden- or dispatched into the deeps of
the ocean, as was suggested at the Council of Ricendell.

Mithalwen · 04-17-2005, 10:43 AM

Dol Guldur was not destroyed by the white council - the Necromancer was merely driven from it (or so it seemed..). Dol Guldur stood until the war of the Ring when it was thrown down by the power of Galadriel following the assaults on Lorien by the forces that still garrisonned it...

mormegil · 05-06-2005, 07:31 PM

I particularly agree with the Dunland Theory. However, in reading these posts it has made me question how orc populations not under any direct control supported themselves with food. For example the orcs from Moria--they didn't have any real way to do this. Is there any explanation given on this in HoME? I can understand how Sauron's orcs received their sustenance but how would those in places like Moria do it? I don't think you could hunt for that amount of food. Also cannibalization wouldn't really work that well.

Gil-Galad · 05-06-2005, 08:16 PM

Cannibalization works...plus Moria goblins have been know nto venture out of hte caves and attack once and awhile, they probaly plunder when their out there

mormegil · 05-06-2005, 08:20 PM

Would they be able to plunder sufficient quantities and cannibalize enough to truly sustance themselves?

Kuruharan · 05-06-2005, 08:31 PM

I would think so. They seemingly bred like rabbits.

mormegil · 05-06-2005, 08:48 PM

I just can't see that this would be a viable way of sustaning a truly large population. What do others think? If cannibalization was the method would they kill those they would eat or would they wait for them to die either in battle or of age? My guess is that they would just kill those who were weaker.

04-16-2005, 08:42 PM	#1
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	Interesting Dol Guldor theory, But wasn't it destroyed by the White Council? On the other hand, orcs were clearly still in force in much of the Misty Mountains, to send forces to join in attacking the Fellowship. And it's rather remarkable to consider what is actually potentially the geopolitical centrality of Orthanc at what seems at first glance an insignificant backwater. Perhaps Saruman's policies weren't as ridiculously improbable as they seem in retrospect, even if the Ring had remained hidden- or dispatched into the deeps of the ocean, as was suggested at the Council of Ricendell. __________________ Aure Entuluva!

04-17-2005, 10:43 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Dol Guldur was not destroyed by the white council - the Necromancer was merely driven from it (or so it seemed..). Dol Guldur stood until the war of the Ring when it was thrown down by the power of Galadriel following the assaults on Lorien by the forces that still garrisonned it... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

05-06-2005, 07:31 PM	#3
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	I particularly agree with the Dunland Theory. However, in reading these posts it has made me question how orc populations not under any direct control supported themselves with food. For example the orcs from Moria--they didn't have any real way to do this. Is there any explanation given on this in HoME? I can understand how Sauron's orcs received their sustenance but how would those in places like Moria do it? I don't think you could hunt for that amount of food. Also cannibalization wouldn't really work that well. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

05-06-2005, 08:16 PM	#4
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Cannibalization works...plus Moria goblins have been know nto venture out of hte caves and attack once and awhile, they probaly plunder when their out there __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

05-06-2005, 08:20 PM	#5
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Would they be able to plunder sufficient quantities and cannibalize enough to truly sustance themselves? __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Last edited by mormegil; 05-06-2005 at 08:33 PM. Reason: typo

05-06-2005, 08:31 PM	#6
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	I would think so. They seemingly bred like rabbits. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

05-06-2005, 08:48 PM	#7
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	I just can't see that this would be a viable way of sustaning a truly large population. What do others think? If cannibalization was the method would they kill those they would eat or would they wait for them to die either in battle or of age? My guess is that they would just kill those who were weaker. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

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