Saruman's economic infrastructure unexplained?

[alatar]

Is there any evidence regarding the assertion of Sauron's economic support of Saruman? This was something that I'd never considered while reading LOTR. Sauron knew what was going on in Orthanc, and may have provided some information at times (or Saruman stole the same), but I just can't see trainloads of orcs (Nan Curunir or Bust!) and supplies crossing the Anduin and Rohan without someone of import noticing.

My assumption has been that Saruman was using what he had on hand, and his hope was to get more stuff before that ran out. He used cash to buy supplies from the Shire (and possibly other places), and I'm sure who got the best deal when bartering. Surely he got what he could from Rohan, and not to be too graphic, but I think that he fed his troops with a variety of Soylent Green, if you follow me.

In regards to orcs (to me) it's implied that he somehow mated/crossed humans and orcs, and I think that those that got winnowed out went back into the pot.

[Meneltarmacil]

The problem with getting supplies from Sauron seems to be mainly a geographical one. The most direct route between Mordor and Isengard would be through Rohan, which Saruman was unable to ever fully control, though he did try.
I suppose Sauron could have sent supplies via ship from Umbar around Gondor to the coast of Dunland, possibly even up the Isen (though this is unlikely since Rohan controlled part of that area). However, this theory too runs into problems as Gondor probably wouldn't allow the Corsairs anywhere near their waters.

Of course, there is one other source of supplies that we know Saruman had been in contact with. He could have been secretly receiving food supplies and possibly some basic raw materials from the Shire (specifically the Southfarthing), though the distance is a problem here.

Is it possible that Saruman had set up some kind of large-scale food production system in Dunland? He certainly seems to have had a lot of influence there. Metal and wood are not much of a problem, since he had Fangorn's trees and the minerals present in the Misty Mountains.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Is it possible that Saruman had set up some kind of large-scale food production system in Dunland? He certainly seems to have had a lot of influence there. Metal and wood are not much of a problem, since he had Fangorn's trees and the minerals present in the Misty Mountains.

Agree that it would seem that the main problem faced by Saruman would be food - you either grow it or buy it. Would the Shire be able to support Saruman's forces, or did he pull also from Breeland?

[Gil-Galad]

Goblins from Moria fought for Saruman to revenge their fallen comrades during the time the fellowship went trhough...maybe they brought their food supplies through there? but i would guess it would probaly be from the Shire...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

The problem with getting supplies from Sauron seems to be mainly a geographical one. The most direct route between Mordor and Isengard would be through Rohan, which Saruman was unable to ever fully control, though he did try.

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

Goblins from Moria fought for Saruman to revenge their fallen comrades during the time the fellowship went through...maybe they brought their food supplies through there? but i would guess it would probaly be from the Shire...

These two posts have got me thinking. Perhaps Sauron's aid, such as it was, came from Dol Guldur? We know that this remained a major base of Sauron's during the War of the Ring, and it was certainly well-equipped, considering that it was the centre of the struggle against Lorien and Thranduil's realm. Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that they were passing supplies on to the orks of the Misty Mountains? North of Lorien there is ample space to be moving things from Mirkwood to the Mountains, and although the Beornings were clearly doing their best to keep the area thereabouts as enemy-free as possible, the image painted by Gloin when he talks with Frodo, in my mind at least, is that this was a less than successful battle, and there were all sorts of orks and such running amok in the Vale of the Anduin.

Once into or across the Mountains, it would be quite easy to hide the traces of the support from prying eyes, considering the very sparse population of those lands. And indeed, if there were interconnected goblin caverns as far south as Dunland, as seems to me to be very possible, then the goods could travel all the way from their entry into the mountains to Isengard without detection. And it might well be assumed by those knowing of their entry into the mountains that they would be used by the orks there, as indeed some of it probably was.

Anyway, that's my hypothesis. Is is reasonable, do you think?

[Kuruharan]

Very much so.

[Gil-Galad]

could always be slave labour involved...

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Interesting Dol Guldor theory, But wasn't it destroyed by the
White Council? On the other hand, orcs were clearly still in force
in much of the Misty Mountains, to send forces to join in
attacking the Fellowship.

And it's rather remarkable to consider what is actually
potentially the geopolitical centrality of Orthanc at what seems
at first glance an insignificant backwater. Perhaps Saruman's
policies weren't as ridiculously improbable as they seem in retrospect,
even if the Ring had remained hidden- or dispatched into the deeps of
the ocean, as was suggested at the Council of Ricendell.

[Mithalwen]

Dol Guldur was not destroyed by the white council - the Necromancer was merely driven from it (or so it seemed..). Dol Guldur stood until the war of the Ring when it was thrown down by the power of Galadriel following the assaults on Lorien by the forces that still garrisonned it...