tactical discussion, countering balrogs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gurthang · 03-22-2005, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by alatar:

Quote:

Though not very obvious from the book, obviously Gandalf gives the Roggie more than a few paper cuts and spells (lightning bolts, fireballs, something?) before he casts him into ruin on the mountain.

I'm not sure that fireballs would to much good against Balrogs, but I think you have the right idea.

In the examples above, there seems to be a trend that you can physically hurt a balrog. (Falls, magic spells, helmet spikes...) It would make sense then that you could injure it enough to remove spirit from body. After all, that is death. The more pain inflicted, the farther apart a beings physical and spiritual parts move. It would probably take awhile, but it seems very possible to me that a balrog could simply be beaten to death.

Now, doing that before it kills you is the hard part.

obloquy · 03-22-2005, 09:07 PM

It's news that Balrogs are physically vulnerable?

the phantom · 03-22-2005, 10:05 PM

Terminal velocity for a human falling with his legs and arms stretched out is around 120 mph. That's pretty much as slow as you can fall.

Balled up- 200 mph

Maximum recorded free fall speed without any special equipment- 321 mph

That is really fast.

There is no doubt that such a fall would kill a person on land. Falling out of Celeborn and Galadriel's flet would likely kill someone.

Water is a different story.

Yes, it's true that water is more like a solid at high speeds (think skipping stones- or airplanes). I've gone water skiing before and yeah- when you try to flip and wipe out at 50 miles an hour you're going to skip a couple times and probably get a couple bruises, but it's not that bad. It's definitely possible to survive a 100 mph fall into water.

There was a jet pilot who bailed out at 10,000 plus feet and survived the dive into the ocean.

So no, the fall into the water did not have to kill or maim Gandalf and Durin's Bane.

But I bet they got a wicked welt, especially if they belly-flopped. Ouch.

Celebaglar · 03-24-2005, 04:47 PM

Why would gandalf call Durin's Bane "Flame of Udun" when Balrogs had barely anything to do with Udun?

obloquy · 03-24-2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celebaglar

Why would gandalf call Durin's Bane "Flame of Udun" when Balrogs had barely anything to do with Udun?

He wouldn't have, if what you say is true. It's not though. Balrogs had plenty to do with Udun (Utumno).

Celebaglar · 03-24-2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obloquy

He wouldn't have, if what you say is true. It's not though. Balrogs had plenty to do with Udun (Utumno).

[from the FOTR]"You cannot pass" he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. "I am a wielder of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. Dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the Shadow! You can not pass."

Please sir, I am not ignorant. If you need proof of Gandalf saying this, it is in the chapter "the bridge of khazad-dum".

And what does the balrog have to do with Udun?

obloquy · 03-24-2005, 08:18 PM

I didn't say Gandalf didn't say it, I said that if what you say is true ("Balrogs had barely anything to do with Udun"), he wouldn't have said what he said. As you've unnecessarily proven, however, Gandalf did say that. Therefore your claim that Balrogs had little to do with Udun is incorrect.

03-22-2005, 10:05 PM	#3
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	concerning falling Balrogs Terminal velocity for a human falling with his legs and arms stretched out is around 120 mph. That's pretty much as slow as you can fall. Balled up- 200 mph Maximum recorded free fall speed without any special equipment- 321 mph That is really fast. There is no doubt that such a fall would kill a person on land. Falling out of Celeborn and Galadriel's flet would likely kill someone. Water is a different story. Yes, it's true that water is more like a solid at high speeds (think skipping stones- or airplanes). I've gone water skiing before and yeah- when you try to flip and wipe out at 50 miles an hour you're going to skip a couple times and probably get a couple bruises, but it's not that bad. It's definitely possible to survive a 100 mph fall into water. There was a jet pilot who bailed out at 10,000 plus feet and survived the dive into the ocean. So no, the fall into the water did not have to kill or maim Gandalf and Durin's Bane. But I bet they got a wicked welt, especially if they belly-flopped. Ouch. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important. Last edited by the phantom; 03-22-2005 at 10:27 PM. Reason: more stuff

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03-22-2005, 09:07 PM	#2
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	It's news that Balrogs are physically vulnerable?

03-24-2005, 04:47 PM	#4
Celebaglar Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Among the host of the noldor, and the last high elves that dwell in middle eath Posts: 31	Why would gandalf call Durin's Bane "Flame of Udun" when Balrogs had barely anything to do with Udun?

03-24-2005, 08:18 PM	#7
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	I didn't say Gandalf didn't say it, I said that if what you say is true ("Balrogs had barely anything to do with Udun"), he wouldn't have said what he said. As you've unnecessarily proven, however, Gandalf did say that. Therefore your claim that Balrogs had little to do with Udun is incorrect.