Let's Talk Morgoth

[davem]

Originally Posted by SpM

It is problematic because they still have to live out their lives (and quite possibly some of them were "immortal" in the same way that Elves are) in a state of evil being without them having any choice in the matter. Why should they be denied "worldly" choice, when it is enjoyed by the other races of Arda?

How much absolute freedom of choice does any race (or individual) actually have. The freedom of choice of every individual is limited by circumstances. Hence any judement of them would be made with this taken into account.

But it was not part of his plan, since that did not anticipate Melchor's rebellion. Which suggests that he is able to change his plan where necessary. So, to return to alatar's point, he could have intervened to prevent Melchor's tainting of Arda (and foreseen that) if he wished. To do so would have involved interfering with his gift of free will to Melchor, yes, but no more so than his later interventions with regard to those affected by them.

Not part of His original plan, certainly. Whether that plan ever actually changed is open to question. Surely its possible that that 'ideal' concept never changed & is the blueprintg for Arda Remade. Eru's interventions are intended, perhaps, to steer Arda Marred towards the form of the original plan. Yet, Arda Remade will not be an exact manifestation of the original plan, as Eru has given both free will & the capacity to sub-create to his creatures.

I still say that Eru's (rare) interventions are to prevent absolute disaster, to pull Middle earth back from the brink. Eru intervenes, & to that extent takes away (temporarily) his gift of free will, but only when it is necessary to protect his children from being completely destroyed. Hence, though He may have felt great pain at the creation of Orcs, their existence was not a threat to the survival of Middle earth, so he let that part of the Music continue. And even if orcs retain the 'immortality' they had as Elves, in the context of eternity, which is the perspective from which Eru views things, it is only a phase of their existence.