Radagast the Brown??

[Firefoot]

I have a bit of a problem with the statement that the birds and beasts were part of Radagast's specific mission. The Istari were sent to aid Elves and Men against Sauron (also why the Blue Wizards failed - they were hardly helping against Sauron out east where they were...), and Radagast "forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures." Had Radagast's study of the animals been just a side branch of study it would have been fine, but in doing so he abandoned his true mission. Though he did not betray them like Saruman did, in a way he was in fact aiding Sauron by not aiding the West with his particular talents.

While the Istari were chosen by the specific Valar mostly because they were "like them," they were not chosen for specific causes. They were sent to help banish Sauron, plain and simple. Of course they were all going to use their specific gifts and talents to do so, but none of them did with the exception of Gandalf. Radagast's hobby became more of an obsession, to the exclusion of his true mission.

[Boromir88]

So, Firefoot, you're saying that it was more "fate" than actual seperate missions? That since Radagast was most like Yavanna it was only natural that he fell in love with birds and nature? Since Saruman was most like Aule, he became greedy?

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I just wanted to make sure that's what you meant, because it sounds more reasonable than anything else...I just want to make sure if that's what you mean?

[Firefoot]

Basically, yes. Yavanna chose Radagast presumably because he was like her - interested in the birds and the beasts. So that potential to become distracted was always there. It didn't have to happen that way; Radagast could have used those gifts to aid their cause. On Saruman, I don't think that he necessarily would have become greedy because he was like Aule, but as in Radagast's case the potential was there. Saruman was clearly always somewhat of a leader, and it follows that "power corrupts"... Each of the Istar were chosen because of their personalities; it just happens that Radagast's and Saruman's were not the 'right' personalities for the task. They didn't live up to the requirements as outlined by Manwë:

"For they must be mighty, peers of Sauron, but must forgo might [Here does Saruman fail - he wants to be too powerful], and clothe themselves in the flesh so as to treat on equality and win the trust of Elves and Men. But this would imperil them, dimming their wisdom and knowledge [This would be where Radagast failed: his wisdom should have told him that he was becoming too involved in his 'hobby'], and confusing them with fears, cares, adn wearinesses coming from the flesh."

Hope this clears things up.

[Faramir]

Radagast did aid alittle,sending the eagles and all....

[Maédhros]

From The Peoples of Middle-Earth: The Five Wizards

Another brief discussion, headed 'Note on the landing of the Five Wizards and their functions and operations', arose from my father's consideration of the matter of Glorfindel, as is seen from the opening words: 'Was in fact Glorfindel one of them?' He observed that he was 'evidently never supposed to be when The Lord of the Rings was written', adding that there is no possibility that some of them were Eldar 'of the highest order of power', rather than Maiar. The text then continues with the passage given in Unfinished Tales, p. 394, beginning 'We must assume that they were all Maiar ...'; but after the words with which that citation ends ('... chosen by the Valar with this in mind') there stands only 'Saruman the most powerful', and then it breaks off, unfinished. Beside these last words is a pencilled note: 'Radagast a name of Mannish (Anduin vale) origin – but not now clearly interpretable' (see Unfinished Tales p. 390 and note 4).
On the reverse of the page are some notes which I described in Unfinished Tales as uninterpretable, but which with longer scrutiny I have been largely able to make out. One of them reads as follows:

No names are recorded for the two wizards. They were never seen or known in lands west of Mordor. The wizards did not come at the same time. Possibly Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast did, but more likely Saruman the chief (and already over mindful of this) came first and alone. Probably Gandalf and Radagast came together, though this has not yet been said. … (what is most probable) ... Glorfindel also met Gandalf at the Havens. The other two are only known to (have) exist(ed) [sic] by Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast, and Saruman in his wrath mentioning five was letting out a piece of private information.

The reference of the last sentence is to Saruman's violent retort to Gandalf at the door of Orthanc, in which he spoke of 'the rods of the Five Wizards' (The Two Towers p. 188). Another note is even rougher and more difficult:

The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age. Glorfindel was sent to aid Elrond and was (though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador. But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Rómestámo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion ... and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause [? dissension and disarray] among the dark East ... They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.

At the words in the citation from this text in Unfinished Tales (p. 394) 'Of the other two nothing is said in published work save the reference to the Five Wizards in the altercation between Gandalf and Saruman' my father wrote: 'A note made on their names and functions seems now lost, but except for the names their general history and effect on the history of the Third Age is clear.' Conceivably he was thinking of the sketched-out narrative of the choosing of the Istari at a council of the Valar (Unfinished Tales p. 393), in which the Two Wizards (or 'the Blue Wizards', Ithryn Luin) were named Alatar and Pallando.

[Aiwendil]

Regarding the issue of Radagast's and Saruman's respective "failures", I think something I posted in one of the chapter by chapter discussions is relevant:

. . . it seems that often when we are presented with a natural extreme and an artificial extreme we are also given a sort of happy medium. For example, Saruman is artificial, Radagast is natural, and Gandalf is the ideal balance. Others that occur to me:

Aule (artifice), Ulmo (nature), Manwe (balance)

Feanor (artifice), Finarfin (nature), Fingolfin (balance) (in this case we also have Fingon and Finrod, just a shade to the artificial and natural sides, respectively)

Noldor (artifice), Teleri (nature), Vanyar (balance)

No time to elaborate, alas - but I would say that Saruman and Radagast each failed (though in very different ways and to very different degrees) by erring on one or the other side of the balance between Art and Nature.

[Elu Ancalime]

but I would say that Saruman and Radagast each failed

Since Sauruman went bad all the way, and Radagast seemed to only have a case of ADD, it think what happened after would be the defining statement: Radagast's spirit was allowed to reenter Valinor, or at least had the potential. Now, then Radagast would either have to go to the Havens (which we should be able to rule out) or have been killed (or possibly died from greif like the elves did???) So ruling out him being slain, something might have happened like this: Many of his animal friends died, and species died out, (eagles became lesser) and so he went sad and 'let go.' I think he would be allowed back to Valinor. Melian was let back in no question, right? So even though Aman was taken from the circles of the world, i think him being an Ainu he could let his spirit go back.
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