The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

If you had a team of Wargs and a team of Dwarves competing on University Challenge, I know where I'd put my money.

aye the rosted peanuts...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Have you heard of the Wargs of Eru? It is said that in the Timeless Halls there are six Wargs. They each have six wings: with two they cover their feet, with two they cover their faces, with two they debate whether they could fly or not.

It is said that they act as Eru's personal guard. They are also the messengers between Manwë in Arda and the Timeless Halls. When Dagor Dagorath comes it is said they will fetch Túrin's spirit, and they will consent to let him ride on them. They will descend upon Arda, and battle with Morgoth on the plains of Valinor.

I've also heard there were supposed to be seven of them. One of them, I believe, was seduced by Morgoth. But the story about this one is tantalisingly obscure.

I'll have to dig deeper.

You have to go to class.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

How interesting Nilpaurion. This gets me thinking about the lecture I had earlier today concerning God and spirits and whatnot.

How is Eru to enact effects on the the world? We run into the problem of spirit and matter duality here. But that is a new suggestion you have presented. Perhaps Wargs are this mysterious link between the two. It might be too late for Descartes, but I suggest you sell this idea to the philosophers or priests - whichever can offer more money.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I have found an ancient Valarin text in Ingwë's house. (If you ask how I can enter the King of All Elves' home just like that, it's simple: we're related.) It deals with the events before the Music of the Ainur came to pass--indeed, even before the creation of the Ainur. An excerpt from it is here quoted:

Before everything else Eru first made the seven Grawlar, the Holy Wargs, and there were seven of them. The mightiest was Varsur, the Regent of Eru.

It is said that when the Timeless Halls was completed, Eru said unto Varsur: "Behold I give unto you all authority in this halls, and you shall be its prince, and you will be subject to none, save to him who appointed you." And he was clad with a cloak of precious stones, as a symbol of his office.

However Varsur's pride grew, and walking through the passage of the Timeless Halls he deemed himself to be subject to none, and he attempted to seat himself in the throne of Eru. And the other Grawlar attempted to stay him, yet Varsur was more powerful than they, and soon his foes were subdued, and he trod the steps up to the throne.

Yet Eru came, and with a voice of utter deepness he ordered Varsur to step down. Stripping him of his cloak, he was banished to the Void, where it is said he would remain, until the end of days has come.

It is said the Melkor received instruction from Varsur, and thus caused the fall of that mighty Ainu. It is also said that when the Powers grow weary of their vigilance the twain would break into Arda and battle even with Manwë upon Taniquetil. And for a time they would be victorious. Yet in the end Eru will send the faithful Grawlar, under Argwë, brother of Varsur, and they would vanquish utterly that dread Warg.

Of Varsur (under copyright from Olórin)

Eomer:

I am currently deep in negotiation, but I am now at a loss at what offer to take. The Phytagoreans are offering me a perfect score in any subject connected to Math, while the Jesuits are offering me full ownership of a school they own in the Philippines. Which one to take?

(Sorry to any Phytagorean or Jesuit reading this.)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Try and negotiate an island. Or at least a private swimming pool.

That was a fascinating find Nilpaurion. The parallels with Melkor are remarkable. Is there any inkling as to when Melkor was able to speak and learn from Varsur? Were they ever in Aman at the same time, for example? Also, could these Wargs alter their form?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Well, one Nutcase (yes, Nutcasm is a school of philosophy with some very interesting ideas, like how they thought the world was made by howler monkeys involved in a lice fight) tried to offer me the 7,108th island of the Philippine archipelago that disappears during the high tide. I denied his offer because I don't want a place that reminds me of Númenor.

As for a private swimming pool . . . well, mine already is the size of Asia.

No, wait--that was my bathtub.

Is there any inkling as to when Melkor was able to speak and learn from Varsur? Were they ever in Aman at the same time, for example? Also, could these Wargs alter their form? (Eomer)

Well, in the Ainulindalë it is said that Melkor searched for the Flame Imperishable in the Void, but he did not find it. He did, however, find the banished Grawla there.

The Grawlar are discarnate, and there is no documented case of one ever taking physical form. However, with their potency of spirit (one of them could take on all the Valar with their hands tied behind their back while blindfolded), they might be able to.

I guess we just have to wait until the end times come. Then the Grawlar will descend on Arda for the first time.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Do we need a 'go-between' for Melkor and Varsur? Perhaps not, if the Grawler were themselves the ultimate go-between. I'm sure they could find a way.