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#1 | |||||
Bittersweet Symphony
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
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Hmm, an interesting find, LMP!
While I don't see any one character which encompasses every trait listed, there are a few which immediately come to mind for specific traits. Quote:
Now for the giver and negator: Sauron is Annatar, the Lord of Gifts. He gave the Nine rings to men and created the Nazgul, removing all humanity from them via his gifts. The last bit of the above quote was what made me think of Saruman. He dupes others by means of his voice, but in his desire for power has foolishly convinced himself that he could go behind Sauron's back. Quote:
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I look forward to reading others' views. ![]() |
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#2 | ||||
Wight
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Edit; Whoops, cross-posted with Elianna
The character who leaps to my mind for this archtype is Bombadil, Quote:
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Several of the Trickster's defining qualities Quote:
In the end, although Bombadil has many aspects of the Trickster, he is clearly a cleaned-up one. This makes some element of sense, as Tolkien's world is quite a bit more (can't quite find the right word...) socially acceptable than the sex-and-gore world that the Trickster largely inhabits in various cultural mythologies. Tolkien also (at least in LotR) takes some pains to delineate the boundary between good and evil, and someone so ambiguous as the Trickster archtype could not reasonably exist in all his full glory in the context of LotR. (IMHO, at least)
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This is my quest, to follow that star; no matter how hopeless, no matter how far. To fight for the right, without question or pause. To be willing to march into Hell for a Heavenly cause! -Man of La Mancha Last edited by Garen LiLorian; 02-05-2005 at 03:51 PM. Reason: cross posting!! |
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#3 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME)
Posts: 612
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At first I was thinking of Sauron. However when it said
Quote:
Also he truly is a trickster. he tricked the elves of Mirkwood who held him prisoner. He also tricked Frodo and Sam when he led them into Shelob's Lair.
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#4 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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I second, or rather, third the motion nominating Bombadil.
I also find some element of The Trickster in Bombadil's enigmatic nature. However, I also agree with Encaitare that no character in the stories completely fits the bill.
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#5 | |
Brightness of a Blade
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Indeed the similarities with Tom Bombadil are striking. The parts that do not fit may be because we know this character too little, or they haven't had a chance to manifest themselves in the given situations.
Even the part about him not having control over impulses being a subject of his passions (notice that it says 'at times'). And impulses and passions don't necessarily have an evil connotation, so I can see Tom Bombadil behaving impulsively. The only problem I see is that Tom appears too little in the story so that he could be perfectly equivalent to the Trickster character. Tricksters usually play a predominant role, and their actions lead to major events. While Bombadil just prefers to be out of the way and is unconcerned with 'greater matters' such as the Ring. So I agree with Garen on this one: Quote:
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#6 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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I think, as others have said, there are a few characters who manifest the Trickster archetype in LotR. In fact, if we take into account the early drafts, Bingo plays the role to an extent in his encounter with Farmer Maggot, wearing the Ring & drinking a mug of beer, & running off with the farmer's hat!
If we look at The Hobbit we see Gandalf playing the same kind of role when he turns up at the start & tricks Bilbo into joining the Quest of Erebor. Its almost as if the Archetype 'overshadows' various characters at various times, rather than any one of them being The Trickster throughout. I wonder if its not misleading to look for a single character personifying any archetype in Tolkien's world. Chrysophylax plays something of the same role in Giles, as does Alf in Smith. Perhaps the Archetype in its 'pure' form was too powerful & dangerous (as well as uncouth) a figure for Tolkien to be entirely comfortable with giving him his head. Bombadil very nearly got away from him, after all, & had to be carefully restricted to his own little land to stop him running riot. Tolkien was very careful in his use of the 'purer' mythological & psychological Archetypes - for instance, its very significant that in a mythology which makes such strong use of 'Northern' myth he carefully avoids the use of ravens. They pop up only in a minor way in the Hobbit, & this is probably because of all the incredibly dark connotations they have in Norse & Celtic myth. I suppose Tolkien was walking a fine line in his own mind between recreating what had been lost, & producing what to him would have seemed something dangerously atavistic. The Archetypes had to be presented in a 'civilised' form, they had to be 'dealable' with for a modern audience, & principally they had to conform to his Christian worldview. The Trickster has no place in orthodox Christianity..... |
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