What are the Two Towers? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lolidir · 01-21-2005, 08:24 AM

i did a paper on Tolkien last year and during my research i remember reading something about this, although i have no idea where or exactly what it said. it was just explaining that as SpM said Tolkien didnt really have an idea for which "Two" towers it refered to. if i remember right he needed a title and that is what he came up with.

I guess its up to you which two you choose to think about. as for my opinion i have always thought of Minas Tirith and Cirith Ungol wich used to be the twin city so-to-speak of Minas Tirith.

Neithan · 01-21-2005, 11:11 AM

When I read the books I get the strong impression that it is Orthanc and Barad-Dûr. A large part of The Two Towers focuses mainly on Orthanc. When Orthanc is defeated their attention is turned to the bigger threat, Barad-Dûr.
There is a comparison going on between Saruman and Sauron. Saruman is trying to immitate Barad-Dûr with Orthanc, but he can not compare. Though Saruman was the main focus of most of The Two Towers and there is a definate feeling of victory when he is defeated, Tolkien soon reminds us that this was just the first round. There is still a greater enemy (second tower) to think of. Thus The Two Towers not Orthanc or Saruman's Tower.
Anyway that was my interpretation.

The Only Real Estel · 01-21-2005, 02:51 PM

I was watching the third disc of TTT EE today (which is of course the first disc of TTT's documentary discs) & found a spot where several people talked a bit about the Two Towers & which towers they thought they were.

One of them said that Tolkien at one point said 'quite clearly' that the two towers were Orthanc & Cirith-Ungol (as SPM said earlier), but added that it could of course refer to Minas Tirith & Barad-Dur--the towers that represent the power of the free peoples of Middle-Earth & the power that is trying to destroy the free peoples of Middle-Earth. Philipa Boyens also brought up that it coud be Minas Morgul & Minas Tirith, the towers that used to be twins; and it was also mentioned that at one point Tolkien said that it could in fact be the union of the two towers, Orthanc & Barad-Dur, that the title refers to (giving license to the way PJ decided to portray it). It's really up for grabs, because to my knowledge Tolkien himself never actually specified which two were actually the towers described in the title of the book.

Boromir88 · 01-21-2005, 03:08 PM

Yes basically any combination could make sense. Especially Eomer's.

Where TTT: Book one, deals with Aragorn and all against Orthanc, and ends in Orthanc.

TTT: Book Two, ends with Cirith Ungol.

To even get things more complicated. I found many parallels between the two Amon's. (Amon Hen and Amon Sul). For that information check here.

Is it possible that Tolkien again is trying to draw parallels between the closings of TTT Book One and Book Two? Isengard and Cirith Ungol?

Elladan and Elrohir · 01-21-2005, 04:29 PM

I've always understood them to be Orthanc and Cirith Ungol, just because that's where the story takes you, and that's what Tolkien said.

But I'm beginning to think it could be Minas Tirith and Barad-dur. After all, in Book II, Chapter X, the chapter that can be considered the prelude to TTT, Frodo looks from Amon Hen and eventually focuses on Minas Tirith, and the greater and stronger tower set against it. This has been erroneously identified as Minas Morgul by at least one person in this thread, but it is clearly Barad-dur. So in that chapter, the Two Towers are clearly MT and BD.

We must keep in mind that Book Three is Secondary Action and Book Four is Primary Action (the Ringbearers and the Quest proper). Thus, especially with the chapters dealing with Faramir, I can see how The Two Towers could refer to Minas Tirith and Barad-dur.

But by no means have I reached a conclusion on this. At this point, my top five picks are:
1) Isengard and Cirith Ungol
2) Minas Tirith and Barad-dur
3) Isengard and Minas Morgul
4) Isengard and Barad-dur
5) Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul

But I am willing to be convinced, if anybody has anything I haven't thought about yet.

Finwe-89 · 01-22-2005, 06:08 AM

Wow, even years after Tolkien wrote these more then great books, there are still mysteries that no one understands or knows.

Ok, well, I think like the most that the two towers are Orthanc and Barad-Dûr. What else should it be. Ok in the movie ( yes the movie can be different) Sarumans said: ''Who now can stand against the connection of the two towers of Isengard? And Mordor?'' Ok something like that. But I might be wrong. It has been a long time I've read the books. But what else should it be? I don't think Saruman means his tower and the tower or Cirth-Ungol.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-22-2005, 09:43 AM

Well, within the context of the film, I guess that's bulletproof.

01-21-2005, 08:24 AM	#1
Lolidir Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Roaming the plains of Middle Earth Posts: 103	i did a paper on Tolkien last year and during my research i remember reading something about this, although i have no idea where or exactly what it said. it was just explaining that as SpM said Tolkien didnt really have an idea for which "Two" towers it refered to. if i remember right he needed a title and that is what he came up with. I guess its up to you which two you choose to think about. as for my opinion i have always thought of Minas Tirith and Cirith Ungol wich used to be the twin city so-to-speak of Minas Tirith. __________________ "Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to" Last edited by Lolidir; 01-21-2005 at 10:34 PM.

01-21-2005, 11:11 AM	#2
Neithan Wight Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 126	When I read the books I get the strong impression that it is Orthanc and Barad-Dûr. A large part of The Two Towers focuses mainly on Orthanc. When Orthanc is defeated their attention is turned to the bigger threat, Barad-Dûr. There is a comparison going on between Saruman and Sauron. Saruman is trying to immitate Barad-Dûr with Orthanc, but he can not compare. Though Saruman was the main focus of most of The Two Towers and there is a definate feeling of victory when he is defeated, Tolkien soon reminds us that this was just the first round. There is still a greater enemy (second tower) to think of. Thus The Two* Towers* not Orthanc or Saruman's Tower. Anyway that was my interpretation. __________________ If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. Men will believe what they see.~Henry David Thoreau

01-21-2005, 04:29 PM	#5
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I've always understood them to be Orthanc and Cirith Ungol, just because that's where the story takes you, and that's what Tolkien said. But I'm beginning to think it could be Minas Tirith and Barad-dur. After all, in Book II, Chapter X, the chapter that can be considered the prelude to TTT, Frodo looks from Amon Hen and eventually focuses on Minas Tirith, and the greater and stronger tower set against it. This has been erroneously identified as Minas Morgul by at least one person in this thread, but it is clearly Barad-dur. So in that chapter, the Two Towers are clearly MT and BD. We must keep in mind that Book Three is Secondary Action and Book Four is Primary Action (the Ringbearers and the Quest proper). Thus, especially with the chapters dealing with Faramir, I can see how The Two Towers could refer to Minas Tirith and Barad-dur. But by no means have I reached a conclusion on this. At this point, my top five picks are: 1) Isengard and Cirith Ungol 2) Minas Tirith and Barad-dur 3) Isengard and Minas Morgul 4) Isengard and Barad-dur 5) Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul But I am willing to be convinced, if anybody has anything I haven't thought about yet. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

01-22-2005, 06:08 AM	#6
Finwe-89 Wight Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In Lotholorien, looking in the mirror that shows that there is still hope for life... Posts: 84	Wow, even years after Tolkien wrote these more then great books, there are still mysteries that no one understands or knows. Ok, well, I think like the most that the two towers are Orthanc and Barad-Dûr. What else should it be. Ok in the movie ( yes the movie can be different) Sarumans said: ''Who now can stand against the connection of the two towers of Isengard? And Mordor?'' Ok something like that. But I might be wrong. It has been a long time I've read the books. But what else should it be? I don't think Saruman means his tower and the tower or Cirth-Ungol. __________________ Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum- ishi krimpatul... Beware: Don't speak this loud when you're alone in the dark... Unless you really want it... But don't say I didn't warn you...

01-22-2005, 09:43 AM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Well, within the context of the film, I guess that's bulletproof. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-21-2005, 02:51 PM	#3
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	I was watching the third disc of TTT EE today (which is of course the first disc of TTT's documentary discs) & found a spot where several people talked a bit about the Two Towers & which towers they thought they were. One of them said that Tolkien at one point said 'quite clearly' that the two towers were Orthanc & Cirith-Ungol (as SPM said earlier), but added that it could of course refer to Minas Tirith & Barad-Dur--the towers that represent the power of the free peoples of Middle-Earth & the power that is trying to destroy the free peoples of Middle-Earth. Philipa Boyens also brought up that it coud be Minas Morgul & Minas Tirith, the towers that used to be twins; and it was also mentioned that at one point Tolkien said that it could in fact be the union of the two towers, Orthanc & Barad-Dur, that the title refers to (giving license to the way PJ decided to portray it). It's really up for grabs, because to my knowledge Tolkien himself never actually specified which two were actually the towers described in the title of the book.

01-21-2005, 03:08 PM	#4
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Yes basically any combination could make sense. Especially Eomer's. Where TTT: Book one, deals with Aragorn and all against Orthanc, and ends in Orthanc. TTT: Book Two, ends with Cirith Ungol. To even get things more complicated. I found many parallels between the two Amon's. (Amon Hen and Amon Sul). For that information check here. Is it possible that Tolkien again is trying to draw parallels between the closings of TTT Book One and Book Two? Isengard and Cirith Ungol?

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