Saruman's fireball

[Boromir88]

This is a rather minor change, but one comment...

as the 'non-book reading' audience would only assume having powers (not just vocal ones) to be a normal trait for a wizard.

The only problem I have with this, is then people asking, why didn't Saruman shoot up the ents, or why didn't Gandalf shoot light rays out of his staff against the orcs? He did it before why not now?

[Lolidir]

that is a good question.

in the book he comes out and starts to talk, use his voice to cast a spell, and if im not mistaken, althoug i might be so feel free to let me know, Theoden is affected by it at first and then over comes it as he did in the movie. so that part is correct. in the book Sarumon sees that he has no power left and retreats into Orthanc and goes on to end everything in the shire. (for those of you who have no idea what i am talking about, its the end of the book RTOK. it good so go read it.) PJ decided not to put that in the movie so he had to show the end of Sarumon some how. he also had to show that he had lost his power over Gandalf. retreating into the tower would have done nothing to help in showing the end of him. by firing the fire ball at Gandalf and him reflecting it or what ever shows the Sarumon no longer had any power over him. and as for how he was shot down that just is how PJ chose to end Sarumon.

as it has been said before this just a minor change.

[The Only Real Estel]

PJ decided not to put that in the movie so he had to show the end of Sarumon some how. he also had to show that he had lost his power over Gandalf. retreating into the tower would have done nothing to help in showing the end of him. by firing the fire ball at Gandalf and him reflecting it or what ever shows the Sarumon no longer had any power over him

True, but it probably would've shown Gandalf's power over Saruman well enough to leave out the fireball & just have Gandalf break his staff.

The only problem I have with this, is then people asking, why didn't Saruman shoot up the ents, or why didn't Gandalf shoot light rays out of his staff against the orcs? He did it before why not now?

Great point. In trying to put myself in the shoes of a person who has just seen the movie without having read the books, I've found that it would be very confusing that Gandalf can fight off Gimli, Legolas, & Aragorn in three seconds, blind Nazgul, etc., but never seems to make much use of such powers once the real fighting starts.

When I watched TTT for the first time, I assumed Saruman did nothing for several reasons: (A) He was taken by suprise (somehow) & caught off guard & (B) The damage was already 98% done by the time he had come out. Now I suppose to add to your question about shooting up the ents, a non-book reader could assume that he did nothing because he didn't have his staff with him when he was out on the balcony.

Of course, going by Jackson's version, he could've blasted all the ents out of spite because they turned his tower into an island--but for some reason he didn't. There are definitly holes that can be found (as usual). I guess I view it as a throw-away seen, but I'm still not greatly bothered by it.

[Encaitare]

I didn't like the fireball, nor did I like how Gandalf is somehow mysteriously impervious to flame -- maybe he built up a fire tolerance from fighting that Balrog? You know, the wingless one?

While I didn't care for that aspect of the scene, I'm not going to dwell on it. I'll just look at Grima instead. Heh. Yay Brad Dourif.

I didn't really mind so much the fireball. What kind of got to me was that I thought the scene was too short. As in the book Saruman should have tried seducing Gandalf. But for plain movie goers, that might have taken a bit too long. What I thought was a little ridiculous was how Gandalf was begging Saruman to know where Sauron was going to strike. When I saw FOTR three years ago, I knew next to nothing about LOTR, and by the end of the movie, even I knew that in ROTK, the final battle would take place in Gondor, whatever that was. And to make matters worse, they even say so in TTT. And isn't it pretty obvious, since Sauron lives right next to Gondor. I mean what's he going to do, sneak hundreds of miles to go attack Dale or something, when the greatest kingdom of Men is right in front of him? In the books I got the impression that Gandalf just wanted to know Sauron's plan for attack, and more importantly when. I'm very sure that Gandalf had known for a very long time that it would be in Minas Tirith. So in the movie it just seems kind out odd that Gandalf has no clue and needs Saurman to tell him. But I really didn't mind the fireball...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think the fireball added confusion to a scene that was going quite well. The films are full of these little effects though, so it was not surprising that they threw in a little magic. I think it is detrimental to the scene and should have been left out.

[Essex]

Estel, re

Of course, going by Jackson's version, he could've blasted all the ents out of spite because they turned his tower into an island--but for some reason he didn't. There are definitly holes that can be found (as usual).

This is my main gripe with the Scriptwriters. When we have large (or small) changes from the book we can find plot holes amongst many of them, as your example above shows.

I remember a big discussion on another forum a couple of years back where we were musing what would have happened if, say, Pippin was replaced by Glorfindel in the Fellowship. I was on the 'keep Pippin' side of the debate, and it really showed how TIGHT Tolkien's plot was, and if you start changing anything, it has a domino effect on the rest of the story.

Anyway, I can find no plot holes in the Books. (I'm not talking about Deus ex Machina by the way, so don't mention the eagles!) Has anyone found any plot holes at all in the books?