Unnamed character in the extended 'Return of the King'? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 01-06-2005, 03:43 PM

Which makes Imrazor's and Mithrellas kids, by blood, half-elves. Too bad they didn't get the gift to choose between mortality and elfhood. Phooey, why does only Earendil's line get to do that.

narfforc · 01-06-2005, 04:04 PM

Legend only says that is how they got the features that Legolas would recognise as elven. Mithrellas was a silvan elf and not one of The High Elves, Tolkien never really explained this one I think, though I will look it up. Oh by the way that last message came out wrong, it should read Imrazors son Galador and Mithrellas had children, sorry.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-06-2005, 06:51 PM

The offspring of Imrazor and Mithrellas were not Half-Elves, or Peredhil, since this term, in its strict application, refers only to the descendants of Earendil and Elwing who were given the choice between mortality and immortality. This choice was accorded to them by Eru (since the power was his only to give) in recognition their great deeds.

Legolas (of the Downs) put together a very helpful FAQ on this issue which is on the main site (follow the link).

Thus, the descendants of Imrazor and Mithrellas were simply mortals (ie of the race of Men) with Elven blood.

In other words, one is not a Half-Elf with the choice between mortality or immortality simply by virtue of having Elven blood. The choice must specifically be bestowed, as it was in the case of Earendil and his sons (plus those of Elrond's line who themselves chose immortality).

Boromir88 · 01-07-2005, 05:19 AM

I said by blood they were half-elves, and technically that's true, one mortal another elf. But that's all they were by blood, they didn't get the choice, as I've said twice now, and you said.

Mithalwen · 01-07-2005, 08:41 AM

I have always wondered what it was about Imrahil which made Legolas know he had Elvish blood .... maybe he had pointy ears .... or a radiant complexion or maybe his feet didn't quite reach the ground.... there is a bit more about the line of Dol Amroth in HoME and UT but not as much as I would like .... Imrahil was one of my favourites ... and he makes such an excellent foil for Denethor in the books ...

narfforc · 01-07-2005, 09:10 AM

The Saucepan Man is correct, it was the will of Eru that only the offspring of Earendil and Elwing should be given the choice. In the case of Idril and Tuor, It was said that he was the only mortal to be numbered among The Eldar. and in the case of Arwen and Aragorn, she became mortal, therefore so was Eldarion. What became of Mithrellas, who dissapeared after giving birth to another child after Galador. Whether she was forced to choose as Arwen and Luthien had, Tolkien does not say . There are only a few possibilities, she either caught a ship to the undying lands, or she was rejected. If she was rejected, that meant she had been accounted amonst the Edain and would eventually die a mortal, if that were true, then so was the offspring, they would be of the race of Man, not halfelven. If she had not tried to catch a ship, and left her life in some kind of limbo, she may well be wandering Middle-Earth still along with Maglor, though this is unlikely.

NOMOREIHERE

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-07-2005, 10:47 AM

Being a pure-blood Elf, Mithrellas had an automatic right to enter Valinor. She could not have been rejected. It doesn't, of course, follow that she did take a ship West ...

01-06-2005, 06:51 PM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	The offspring of Imrazor and Mithrellas were not Half-Elves, or Peredhil, since this term, in its strict application, refers only to the descendants of Earendil and Elwing who were given the choice between mortality and immortality. This choice was accorded to them by Eru (since the power was his only to give) in recognition their great deeds. Legolas (of the Downs) put together a very helpful FAQ on this issue which is on the main site (follow the link). Thus, the descendants of Imrazor and Mithrellas were simply mortals (ie of the race of Men) with Elven blood. In other words, one is not a Half-Elf with the choice between mortality or immortality simply by virtue of having Elven blood. The choice must specifically be bestowed, as it was in the case of Earendil and his sons (plus those of Elrond's line who themselves chose immortality). __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! Last edited by The Saucepan Man; 01-06-2005 at 06:55 PM.

01-07-2005, 08:41 AM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I have always wondered what it was about Imrahil which made Legolas know he had Elvish blood .... maybe he had pointy ears .... or a radiant complexion or maybe his feet didn't quite reach the ground.... there is a bit more about the line of Dol Amroth in HoME and UT but not as much as I would like .... Imrahil was one of my favourites ... and he makes such an excellent foil for Denethor in the books ... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-07-2005, 09:10 AM	#6
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	The Saucepan Man is correct, it was the will of Eru that only the offspring of Earendil and Elwing should be given the choice. In the case of Idril and Tuor, It was said that he was the only mortal to be numbered among The Eldar. and in the case of Arwen and Aragorn, she became mortal, therefore so was Eldarion. What became of Mithrellas, who dissapeared after giving birth to another child after Galador. Whether she was forced to choose as Arwen and Luthien had, Tolkien does not say . There are only a few possibilities, she either caught a ship to the undying lands, or she was rejected. If she was rejected, that meant she had been accounted amonst the Edain and would eventually die a mortal, if that were true, then so was the offspring, they would be of the race of Man, not halfelven. If she had not tried to catch a ship, and left her life in some kind of limbo, she may well be wandering Middle-Earth still along with Maglor, though this is unlikely. NOMOREIHERE Last edited by narfforc; 01-07-2005 at 09:14 AM.

01-07-2005, 10:47 AM	#7
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Being a pure-blood Elf, Mithrellas had an automatic right to enter Valinor. She could not have been rejected. It doesn't, of course, follow that she did take a ship West ... __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-06-2005, 03:43 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Which makes Imrazor's and Mithrellas kids, by blood, half-elves. Too bad they didn't get the gift to choose between mortality and elfhood. Phooey, why does only Earendil's line get to do that.

01-06-2005, 04:04 PM	#2
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	Legend only says that is how they got the features that Legolas would recognise as elven. Mithrellas was a silvan elf and not one of The High Elves, Tolkien never really explained this one I think, though I will look it up. Oh by the way that last message came out wrong, it should read Imrazors son Galador and Mithrellas had children, sorry.

01-07-2005, 05:19 AM	#4
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I said by blood they were half-elves, and technically that's true, one mortal another elf. But that's all they were by blood, they didn't get the choice, as I've said twice now, and you said.