Celebrian's Misfortunes - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 01-03-2005, 07:34 PM

I agree with Neurion.

Gorthaur the Cruel · 01-03-2005, 07:45 PM

It isn't entirely impossible that such a torture did occur for Celebrian. Tolkien deosn't really address clearly when something sexual-related is open to interpretation.

Boromir88 · 01-03-2005, 07:52 PM

Why must people try to look for sexual intentions in Tolkien's books? What I mean is, "Are Frodo and Sam gay?" "Did Arwen and Aragorn do it before the Council of Elrond?" "Oooh, did you see how Galadriel looked at Bilbo when they were parting for Valinor, do you think there was something between them? Or maybe Frodo?"

It's like since there is no mention of sexual activity people must go and force in possible instances when there is really nothing there.

Gorthaur the Cruel · 01-03-2005, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Why must people try to look for sexual intentions in Tolkien's books? What I mean is, "Are Frodo and Sam gay?" "Did Arwen and Aragorn do it before the Council of Elrond?" "Oooh, did you see how Galadriel looked at Bilbo when they were parting for Valinor, do you think there was something between them? Or maybe Frodo?"

It's like since there is no mention of sexual activity people must go and force in possible instances when there is really nothing there.

Boromir, I highly doubt that my question on Celebrian's ordeal is of the same nature that you find offensive in those other ridiculous questions you stated.

Encaitare · 01-03-2005, 09:59 PM

So maybe she was, and maybe she wasn't. It certainly is more of a reason to fall into despair and want to leave Middle-earth forever, but then again, maybe to an elf, being attacked is enough. It's sort of like with Morgoth wanting to do something "terrible" to Luthien. That is all we're told, and it can be interpreted in various ways, as many things in Tolkien's work can be.

Whatever the case, nothing can come of arguing one side or the other. It's like those darned Balrog wings...

Nukapei · 01-03-2005, 10:00 PM

Your right, Boro, your question is entirely different than people making up sexual relationships (sometimes homosexual ones) between LotR characters. In fact, I've often wondered the same thing -- it Celebrian was raped, I mean. However, I doubt it. Something that awful was sure to be mentioned, or at least hinted at, by Tolkien. And, anyway, orcs don't really seem to have the same sexual urges humans have, especially humans of our culture. We are a very sex-orienated people, after all -- all one needs to do to see that is turn on the tv.

Bêthberry · 01-03-2005, 10:17 PM

Well I suppose that before we could settle the question of did they or didn't they, we would have to come to terms with the nature of orcish reproduction, which I believe is just slightly less problematic than balrog wings or Tom Bombadil.

the phantom · 01-03-2005, 11:17 PM

In a thread I started about the Morgoth/Luthien incident I brought up rape. Then I read some HoME (X, Laws and Customs...) and found this-

Quote:

there is no record of any among the Elves that took another's spouse by force... one so forced would have rejected bodily life and passed to Mandos

If the orcs had attempted to rape Celebrian, it seems she would have "died". So, since she was rescued alive I would assume she was not raped.

However, it's very likely she was tickled mercilessly- a preferred method of torment amongst all who learned under Melkor's tutelage.

01-03-2005, 07:45 PM	#2
Gorthaur the Cruel Wight Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mordor Posts: 150	It isn't entirely impossible that such a torture did occur for Celebrian. Tolkien deosn't really address clearly when something sexual-related is open to interpretation. __________________ I am Annatar, the Lord of Gifts.

01-03-2005, 10:00 PM	#6
Nukapei Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 80	Your right, Boro, your question is entirely different than people making up sexual relationships (sometimes homosexual ones) between LotR characters. In fact, I've often wondered the same thing -- it Celebrian was raped, I mean. However, I doubt it. Something that awful was sure to be mentioned, or at least hinted at, by Tolkien. And, anyway, orcs don't really seem to have the same sexual urges humans have, especially humans of our culture. We are a very sex-orienated people, after all -- all one needs to do to see that is turn on the tv. __________________ *Gwend sui lotheg i edlothia an-uir.* Friendship is like a flower that blooms forever. Avatar image by the amazing Gold-Seven. site \| RPG

01-03-2005, 10:17 PM	#7
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Well I suppose that before we could settle the question of did they or didn't they, we would have to come to terms with the nature of orcish reproduction, which I believe is just slightly less problematic than balrog wings or Tom Bombadil. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

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01-03-2005, 07:34 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I agree with Neurion.

01-03-2005, 07:52 PM	#3
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Why must people try to look for sexual intentions in Tolkien's books? What I mean is, "Are Frodo and Sam gay?" "Did Arwen and Aragorn do it before the Council of Elrond?" "Oooh, did you see how Galadriel looked at Bilbo when they were parting for Valinor, do you think there was something between them? Or maybe Frodo?" It's like since there is no mention of sexual activity people must go and force in possible instances when there is really nothing there.

01-03-2005, 09:59 PM	#5
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	So maybe she was, and maybe she wasn't. It certainly is more of a reason to fall into despair and want to leave Middle-earth forever, but then again, maybe to an elf, being attacked is enough. It's sort of like with Morgoth wanting to do something "terrible" to Luthien. That is all we're told, and it can be interpreted in various ways, as many things in Tolkien's work can be. Whatever the case, nothing can come of arguing one side or the other. It's like those darned Balrog wings...