Are you a better person?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It's quite interesting to think about. For I used to believe that I had become a better person since reading Tolkien's books, but now I am not sure.

Mainly because it was tied in with such themes as honour and respect and meaning. Especially meaning, and I think this really shone through in The Silmarillion. When I think about it, I wonder why a person with such little respect for religion gets so 'into' Tolkien's story.

My reading of the book slightly coincided with my 'coming of age', so to speak. I first read it at the age of 17, and now 3-4 years later, I am finally quite happy and comfortable with myself. I used to think that The Lord of the Rings had had a big effect on me, but now I can realise that I still do things which may be rather disagreeable to other Tolkien fans! I now think that Tolkien's books were rather a small part of the big picture that is my outlook.


*To note, and I am sorry about the lack of a link, but I am reminded now of mark12_30's 'High: Purged of the Gross' thread.*

[Nimrodel_9]

You know, now that I think about it, I think it has made me a better person.
As lame as it sounds, I often find myself think things like: Aragorn wouldn`t be teasing his siblings, or Faramir dosen`t complain to his parents.
I think LotR has helped me because subconsciously, I think I am trying to be like the characters.

Nim

[Nukapei]

Hmmm, tough question. I guess you really have to define what you mean by "better".

It has definitely improved me in the linguistic / vocab department. I'm no Elvish scholar (I got as far as plurals and threw my hands up in defeat), but the archaic language of LotR and The Silmarillion (I haven't read anything else) have helped me to understand my own language a little better. And it makes Shakespere (sp?) a cinch!

It also has given me a broader outlook on life. It's almost become a game to me, to wonder if 'they' would do a certain thing the same in Middle-earth! I see things now that I wouldn't have before, and am able to look at something and say, 'that makes sense' or 'that's just a cultural thing'. I also (to a much lesser extent!) do what Nimrodel_9 does, say (subcontiously) to myself, '[insert character here] wouldn't approve of what I'm about to do'. But I've only done that once or twice!

It also has opened my eyes much more to mankind's blatant disregard to the Earth and nature. Especially the Elves' attitute toward nature, has made me look at our own and say, 'wow, this is wrong! We're really screwing ourselves up by doing that!' It's stupid, really, how we try to conquer nature instead of just working with it.

Other than that, it's just a good story. I'm not even going to touch on the whole 'I could've been a brilliant medical doctor' issue that Child of the 7th Age raised, but I've experienced no epiphony while reading these books, they haven't inspired me to go out and take archery lessons or anything, and they certainly haven't affected me spiritually.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

Say, I may not say I'm better person for reading Tolkien, for I do not know what would have come out of me if I haven't - I have only one 'me' to judge, the one who've read it, and I am what I am, if you follow my meaning, kind sirs and ladies.

*nods head in agreement* There is no way we can know what would have happened...there is only what is happening for us to deal with. Can we then really say that we are "better" now that we have read the books? That the changes brought upon by our knowledge of Middle Earth are more acceptable than how life would have been without it?

Then again, I for one am glad I have heard my schoolmates talking about this "Lord of the Rings" book that will be rendered in the silverscreen. Because of this, I have a more passionate love of reading. I have somehow learned to put my thoughts into words. And I have realized that deep inside, I am a true geek, and that I should be proud of it.

Another thing, I have somehow gained insight on how to deal with certain situations. One character that comes swiftly to mind when I think about my life is Eowyn. Maybe in some way the fact that we have dealt with a more-or-less similar "problem" has strengthened me...silly as it might sound, I have realized that I am not the only person in the world going through that experience. (That's how real LotR has been to me.) It does not mean, though, that I look to the books for the proper way to live life or turn it into my personal guidebook. It just somehow feels good that you read something reflective of yourself in a work of fiction.

So am I a "better" person because of the books? I do not know, but they have been so integrated in me that taking them away might tear me into pieces, if taking them away is ever possible.

[littlemanpoet]

It also has opened my eyes much more to mankind's blatant disregard to the Earth and nature. Especially the Elves' attitute toward nature, has made me look at our own and say, 'wow, this is wrong! We're really screwing ourselves up by doing that!'

and they certainly haven't affected me spiritually.

You must mean "spiritually" in a strictly religious sense, because the "opened eyes" and having been made to look and say "this is wrong", are spiritual responses, don't you think?

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Thank you all for the very intriguing responses to my rather consciously 'loaded' question. In particular, thanks to lmp for really bringing out the central issue of "humility" here. As I read through the posts it's interesting to note that pretty much everyone is saying "Yes, I am better for having read the book" but no-one wants to do anything so lofty (or so flaky) as to indulge in self-congratulatory celebrations of how great we've all become.

I, for one, firmly believe in the educative and improving nature of all reading acts, if these acts are undertaken in intelligence and with an open mind. Such an approach, when in response to a text as rewarding as LotR, cannot be anything but a Good Thing.

I am a better person for having read LotR. It has opened my mind, as I said above, to a point of view different from my own. It has given me endless hours of pleasure. It has helped me make any number of improving friendships with other people who love the book as I do (most of them here at the Downs). I don't think that me admitting this is any lack of humility on my part (at least, I hope not) quite the reverse -- I think that admitting to being improved by a book is acknowlegement of all the ways in which I can be improved.

But this leads me to more questions: I am being improved by the book, or am I improving myself in response to the book? Is there a specific kind of Middle-earth improvement that I cannot gain from any other book, or is it merely one pathway among many to the same place? Are those of us who are made better by the book, or who better ourselves in resonse to the book, better in the same way? Is there a bit of Tolkien in all of us, or are we just rising to a challenge presented by the book in our own unique ways?

[elronds_daughter]

I think I tend to take on traits of certain characters, especially those characters that I particularly admire (e.g. Eowyn). As for 'better', though, I'm not sure. Probably, but since I have no idea where I'd be if I hadn't read LotR, I can't tell for sure. Besides that, any future that we "see" is only a future that might be. What we are is what we are, and, for good or ill, we can't change it; we can change what we choose to become.


Well, that was unusually 'deep' for me.... Strange, I'm not usually like that.... Must've been something about your questions, Fordim....

[littlemanpoet]

Is there a specific kind of Middle-earth improvement that I cannot gain from any other book, or is it merely one pathway among many to the same place?

Eucatastrophe. Perhaps it exists in other books, but I haven't been affected by this in other books as I have in LotR. This is one way in which I became better than I was. I had given way to despair (for various reasons that are not to the point), and partly through the book, and partly through a certain BD discussion thread, I was reminded of the hope in LotR, that some kind of good can come out of seemingly insurmountable evil. Hope has been a re-starting point for a personal renaissance of the spirit.

Are those of us who are made better by the book, or who better ourselves in response to the book, better in the same way?

In part yes, in part no. The former is passive, something that happens to us, whereas the latter is something we do ourselves. That has to account for some difference. Don't you think that being made better (a realization), must precede choosing to be better (conscious action)?

Is there a bit of Tolkien in all of us, or are we just rising to a challenge presented by the book in our own unique ways?

There's a level at which, obviously, there's a bit of Tolkien in all of us, in that we share humanity; but I think you're shooting for something more specific. There seems to me to be a lot of middle ground between your either and or in this question. Might you clarify it?

[Nukapei]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

You must mean "spiritually" in a strictly religious sense, because the "opened eyes" and having been made to look and say "this is wrong", are spiritual responses, don't you think?

Oops! Yes, I guess I did. I'm not into anything "new age", so to me "spiritually" means "religion". I thought being affected "spiritually" meant being more religious because of, I don't know, seeing the way the Valar and Illuvatar interacted with the peoples of Arda? Or becoming not-so-religious because of the role of the Valar et co. making me more inclined to view all religions, including real ones, as just another work of myth? It seems stupid, really, but that's the first thing that popped into my mind. I didn't really examine the thought that much, I was too worried about the nature thing. Sorry!

[THE Ka]

Not really. No 'major primetime newsblock' changes...

But, at the age of 11, I soon learned that not all hobbits were like Bilbo , and that there were many different types of people with many different challenges to face.



I hope that counts...

I think there's more but, I might have to have a memory meeting with my eleven-year-old self...

~Ka~

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Fordim

Is there a bit of Tolkien in all of us, or are we just rising to a challenge presented by the book in our own unique ways?

I have to pull out Fordim's question here because it's such a good one. I've been thinking about this a fair bit lately, and whether there is indeed some common characteristic shared by Tolkien fans. By Tolkien fans, I don't mean someone who has read the books and purely enjoyed them, I mean Tolkien fans like myself who take delight in delving deeply into the texts, discussing them and coming up with mad ideas and theories, i.e. someone fan enough to be a member of a site like this.

We are all different, and while some of us respond most to the linguistic elements, some of us look for spiritual/religious significance, and I often look for echoes to folklore and history. But what unites us all, surely, is the love of detail?

Tolkien was himself very much concerned with detail. He was a philologist and an academic, hence professionally required to be concerned with seemingly tiny details, and his work is literally crammed with details and references, so many that you could easily spend your whole life searching these out, as indeed many of us have done. Do we all love detail? Yes, we might all be entirely capable of seeing the 'bigger picture' as t'were, but I think, deep inside of all of us, there's something of the philologist, the theologian, the mathematician, even the pedant (I admit it, I can be one quite often ). We all bring somthing unique to the books, but I think they do indeed appeal to that obsessive streak within us all.