Metareferences and Intertextuality.

[Boromir88]

A wonderful post A_Brandybuck, Beowulf was definately an influence on Tolkien, and a good job explaining the Edda. Since Tolkien mentions using these sources he definately intended to use them for a purpose.

A wonderful post. There was this thread that contained a website to look at all the mythologies of Europe, and one was a Baltic myth about the battle of a "good wizard" and "wicked wizard." Unfortunately, I can't find that thread, or can't remember the website. It was a handy website that went in depth to the mythologies of Europe (including Beowulf, King Arthur...etc). I will have to search for the thread to find it again.

[ninlaith]

I think we can all agree upon one thing...if you read something you really like it sort of sticks to you forever. Tolkien had a major major affinity for Anglo-Saxon literature. In fact that was one of the subjects he studied at Oxford, but you all probably knew that. He was reading Beowulf while he was writing down the Hobbit. I believe he loved the book so much he couldn't help adding some of it to his own work. For example: a dragon resting on mounds of gold was in Beowulf which ties to our beloved Smaug, another congruence is when Beowulf arrived at Herod he was met by a guard who would not let them proceed which ties to the same incident in The Hobbit when they were met by the challege of goards blocking their path. Sorry if that's all a little vague. I must admit I have not read either of the books for a long time. I feel very remorseful for neglecting my Tolkien rituals. I'll get right on it.

[Boromir88]

I think we can all agree upon one thing...if you read something you really like it sort of sticks to you forever.

Exactly ninlaith, and that is the point behind metareferences and intertextuality. That anything (now adays) that is written in books, or made into movies, has been done before. So no piece of literature or film is entirely original, or entirely "new." It has ties back to previous works. I think you hit the nail on the head, when we read something we really like, it sticks with us.

I wonder if I should clear this up, or not, since you all seem to be getting the point, and posting some really nice stuff , but this was something I forgot to mention in my first post. The intentions of metareferences and intertextuality isn't to say "Ahhh, Tolkien took ideas, copied ideas from Beowulf, mythologies, religions...etc." It's ment to find out who influenced Tolkien (or other authors) to come up with their stories, and then to figure out for what purpose they were doing it for. No one has done that here, it's just something I forgot to mention. I've really enjoyed reading all the posts so far .

[Saraphim]

I happen to own a great book called Tolkien's Ring, written by David Day, I believe. In there it outlines most of the mythological and religious influences on Tolkien.

I very much admire the tactics of Metareference and Intertextuality. I think it not only gives homage to a certain writer or culture, (in the case of mythology) but it provides a good, solid base for a specific idea.

It's almost as if Tolkien thought "Alright, rings seem to be a good source of storytelling. We'll start with that and see what develops."

In a story I'm working on, there is a small side-plot that was partially inpired by a Japanese Anime called Trigun. This doesn't mean I copied the storyline or characters in any way, or even the basic idea. I simply found something I liked that seems to follow me around and lend itself to my story.

I think we can all agree upon one thing...if you read something you really like it sort of sticks to you forever.

...which is sort of my point exactly.

[Boromir88]

It's almost as if Tolkien thought "Alright, rings seem to be a good source of storytelling. We'll start with that and see what develops."

In a story I'm working on, there is a small side-plot that was partially inpired by a Japanese Anime called Trigun. This doesn't mean I copied the storyline or characters in any way, or even the basic idea. I simply found something I liked that seems to follow me around and lend itself to my story.

Exactly, there are only two things writers tend to do during a Literary "period." If that style of writing is popular, then they will continue on the trend. If they feel a need for a change, or just want to be different from everyone else, then they will go with the complete opposite of the trend, in hopes to start a new trend.

Hope your story goes well Saraphim .