The Structure of The Lord of the Rings - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

ivo · 12-14-2004, 10:21 AM

quote: Now, once the Ring is destroyed we see a bunch of chapters of "good byes." The new "safe havens," are what used to be the dangerous ones. Places like Minas Tirith, Rohan, Lorien, are now ridding themselves of the danger, and are safe places for Frodo to stay. However, when we hit Bree, Tolkien gives us a curveball, the Shire is corrupt. They leave the safety of Rivendell, Minas Tirith....etc and plunge into the now unsafe Shire. A complete turn around, a 360. quote

I think plotwise the story ends with the destruction of the ring. That's the climax (no wonder they left the scouring of the shire out of the movies).
I think of LOTR more as a chronicle, which doesn't explain the structure fully but gives it a name which might help to grasp it.

There is an interesting interpretation of the scouring of the shire though. If we look at hobbits as people who have little knowledge of the outside world and are only interested in themselves, in their own history, the whole quest could be seen as an awareness of the mind. In hegelian terms (german philosopher): The mind becomes conscious as it travels to Mordor. There it faces its ultimate negation, death. But in order to become selfconscious it has to return to where it came from. Only then it is Geist.

Interesting is also that all the three main characters (Gandalf (Balrog), Aragorn (Path of the Dead) and Frodo (Dead Marshes) overcome dead. (to be born again first you have to die).

This is a bit brief, due to little time, but I had to react.
Great topic indeed!

littlemanpoet · 12-14-2004, 02:43 PM

Quote:

This paragraph (and don't ask me why), but to me just sort of has a biblical tone.

I know what you're talking about, Boromir88. The term that I'm familiar with in this regard is archaic. Tolkien, who took to language like great swimmers take to water, knew exactly what he was doing, as you probably well know. He was shooting for precisely that feel in that part of the story.

Archaic language is typically used in heroic verse. Whereas this is prose, it gives an account of a heroic battle. Tolkien is harking back to the Anglo-Saxon roots of his Rohirrim, to Beowulf and other old Anglo-Saxon (Old English) works of literature. It's no surprise that the original writers of the King James Version also used this kind of language. In some regards, they were using heroic language in translating the stories of David and Moses, etc.. On the other hand, their "Shakespearian" English seems archaic to us; but of a different kind.

Have you ever read any ancient literature besides the Bible (KJV version for example)?

ivo, it's pretty clear to me that you bring a wealth of knowledge and insight to the boards. Welcome! Are you into, or knowledgeable of, Joseph Campbell?

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12-14-2004, 10:21 AM	#1
ivo Newly Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 10	quote: Now, once the Ring is destroyed we see a bunch of chapters of "good byes." The new "safe havens," are what used to be the dangerous ones. Places like Minas Tirith, Rohan, Lorien, are now ridding themselves of the danger, and are safe places for Frodo to stay. However, when we hit Bree, Tolkien gives us a curveball, the Shire is corrupt. They leave the safety of Rivendell, Minas Tirith....etc and plunge into the now unsafe Shire. A complete turn around, a 360. quote I think plotwise the story ends with the destruction of the ring. That's the climax (no wonder they left the scouring of the shire out of the movies). I think of LOTR more as a chronicle, which doesn't explain the structure fully but gives it a name which might help to grasp it. There is an interesting interpretation of the scouring of the shire though. If we look at hobbits as people who have little knowledge of the outside world and are only interested in themselves, in their own history, the whole quest could be seen as an awareness of the mind. In hegelian terms (german philosopher): The mind becomes conscious as it travels to Mordor. There it faces its ultimate negation, death. But in order to become selfconscious it has to return to where it came from. Only then it is Geist. Interesting is also that all the three main characters (Gandalf (Balrog), Aragorn (Path of the Dead) and Frodo (Dead Marshes) overcome dead. (to be born again first you have to die). This is a bit brief, due to little time, but I had to react. Great topic indeed!