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#1 |
Stormdancer of Doom
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Amon Hen-- I don't think the hill wore out its magic. But anything supernatural takes participation to experience. If Ted Sandyman had stood on that hill, do you think he would have seen anything? I don't.
Even for those who are very capable-- it doesn't always come together. Think of the times when Gandalf's supernatural abilities are frustrated. He can't remember; or something blocks him; or he just makes a mistake, a bad choice, and his magic doesn't do him much good if he's in the wrong place. Isn't Gandalf supernatural? Of course he is. But it's like anything else; you're never 100% effective 100% of the time. It comes and goes, sometimes you're 'on', sometimes you're not. An olympic athlete has to be in the right mental and physical "space" to give an olympic performance. Just being in the venue doesn't make you a winner. But being out of the venue doesn't help much if you want that medal. Being on top of Amon Hen isn't an automatic visionary experience. But if you are seeking a vision, and you can have them, and you know what to do, or you are gifted in that area-- it might all come together, like it did for Frodo (who ran up there with no clear thoughts in mind and no expectations, hence, open to whatever he might see.) Or it might not come together at all, as when Aragorn ran up the hill, worried about the fellowship, frantically chasing Frodo, annoyed with Boromir, and wishing Gandalf was there to help. He saw nothing. Perhaps he was Meant to see nothing (there I go with capitals again) or perhaps he could have seen something if he was prepared and ready, and in the right emotional and mental and spiritual 'space'. He wasn't. He was half-frantic. No visionary 'gold medal' that day for Aragorn. But: -the olympic venue hadn't changed. -Aragorn's heart does see and speak clearly later without the aid of Amon Hen. Rimbaud-- my favorite thread(s) have changed many times over the past thirty years-- hmm, almost as often as I've switched 'favorite characters'.
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...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. |
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#2 | |
Beloved Shadow
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the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important. |
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#3 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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He's a man who has been able to follow his desires for power & authority while still holding to the letter of those teachings, because he was fighting a war against an external 'evil' force. Suddenly he's confronted with the spirit of them & is 'torn in two'. In the end, as Aragorn tells him, he 'conquers' & chooses the spirit over the letter of those teachings. Something St. Paul (?)said about the 'Letter kills, the spirit gives life' springs to mind. |
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#4 | |||||||||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Short though it is, this Chapter must rank among my favourites. I still have a vague (unfortunately too vague) recollection of the shock of Boromir's death when I first read the book. It is one of those moments that stays with you.
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But he does not give up. With the support of Legolas and Gimli, he picks himself up and starts to assess the position. His words and actions begin to take on a more positive, confident tone. Perhaps, as Gimli says, there is no right choice. But there is a choice to be made and, having gathered as much information as he can, Aragorn faces up to it. (I tend to think that Gimli is wrong here. Who knows what would have happened had Aragorn chosen to follow Frodo, but the choice which he makes ultimately turns out for the good. And it would have been unthinkable to leave Merry and Pippin to their fate while hope remained that they were alive. But, to be fair to Gimli, his comment here is made without full knowledge of the facts.) Quote:
![]() This Chapter marks an essential stage in the transformation of Aragorn into one who is worthy to become the leader of Men. It's not that he lacked confidence or hope or leadership skills before. But he is destined to become King of the greatest nation of (Western) Middle earth, and that requires exceptional qualities. These he shows in some measure in lifting himself from despair and rising to the challenge set for him here. But he has to do this himself. The Seat of Seeing cannot provide the solution for him. Like Aiwendil, I have always regarded Aragorn as a rather flat character but, for the reasons discussed above, I have to agree with him when he says that this Chapter is probably the best portrayal of Aragorn in the book. And so, once again, to Boromir. Quote:
It is, to my mind, important that Boromir's act of redemption (whereby he 'pays' for his mistake) is one which reminds us of his redeeming qualities. As Lalwendë has noted, the fact that he is surrounded by the bodies of those that he has slain marks him out as a warrior. And the sheer number that lay piled up around him, not to mention the alarming number of arrows that have pierced him, highlight his valour and strength. Boromir's downfall came through his over-confidence - thinking (or deceiving himself) that he knew better than the Wise what to do with the Ring. But he redeems himself through those qualities in which he is rightfully confident: valour, strength and skill in arms. Interestingly, Aragorn's low point in this Chapter comes through a lack of confidence in his own qualities, but it is through exercising his undoubted skills in tracking (through which he learns of Frodo's choice and gains a goal - to save Merry and Pippin) that he finds inspiration as a leader and sets off on the path which is, ultimately, to lead him to the throne of Gondor. Quote:
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Finally, a quick word on the barrow blades which Aragorn finds among the bodies of the Orcs. It is heartening to see that Merry and Pippin did not allow themselves to be captured without a fight. But more significant is Aragorn's description of them as: Quote:
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! Last edited by The Saucepan Man; 11-23-2004 at 10:03 PM. |
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#5 |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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Just a brief allusion back to Aldarion's suggestion that Legolas and Gimli would have had the skills to compose such a song on the spot. I would heartily concur. The key factor here would not be that a few contemporary entertainers possess this ability even today, but rather the very nature of Middle-earth and how learning and story is passed on in a traditional culture.
This world is so different than ours. It is a culture where oral tradition holds equal or even greater weight than that which is written. Many things would be memorized and passed on orally from one generation to the next. In such a setting, most people would have had a small stock of funereal rites and songs in their memory that could be adapted and tweeked to fit a particular situation. They would draw upon this in the same way that I would automatically go to my library and find a particular book of poems that would contain something with meaning for a given situation. It's also interesting to consider that, by all rational standards, it was a terrible mistake for the "good guys" to be standing about singing while the Orcs are dragging the captured Hobbits further and further away. But as badly as the company needed to take off after the kidnapped Hobbits, it was even more essential that they show and define who they are. Unlike the Orcs who let their comrades die without giving them a second thought, Aragorn and his companions take time to show respect and honor for those who have fallen, even if it puts them further behind the kidnappers. To gain time by disregarding a fundamental principle--that of respect for an individual life--is not something Tolkien could countenance in his "heroes".
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Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. Last edited by Child of the 7th Age; 11-24-2004 at 08:57 AM. |
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#6 | ||
Deadnight Chanter
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Post #12 re:
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![]() Cf with the Council of Elrond A/B bickering: Quote:
I suppose, following mark, that similar interchanges may have been a-plenty along the road.
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! Last edited by HerenIstarion; 11-24-2004 at 04:03 AM. |
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#7 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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HerenIstarion: You make a good point. I think that Shippey discusses the 'one day we shall put it to the test' formula in connection with that passage.
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Of course, one's interpretation of those ideals has some relavance. I recall that in the essay "Turin's Ofermod", Richard West discusses Tolkien's interpretation of the word "ofermod" found in "The Battle of Maldon". The word may be translated "overmood", "overboldness". Many or most scholars read the word as one of praise for Beorhtnoth and as reflecting the heroic ideal of the Anglo-Saxons. Tolkien, on the other hand, read it as expressing fault. Now I don't know enough about "The Battle of Maldon" or Anglo-Saxon literature in general to make a reasonable guess as to which view is correct. But the disagreement suggests that Tolkien's version of the northern heroic ideal may in fact have differed from the truth about it. In a way, then, one could see Boromir as representing the old ideal, the Anglo-Saxon ideal, which is giving way (as it must) to Aragorn, the modern, perhaps Christianized, ideal. It is hard to imagine an Anglo-Saxon epic in which it would not be thought a wholly admirable thing to take the Ring and to use it against the enemy; the idea that power can corrupt and that valour in arms may not be the best course seems distinctly modern. LotR, then, could be viewed as a work that shows a shift in the heroic paradigm, if you will, somewhat like "Beowulf" or, I don't know, American Graffiti - not, perhaps, an intra-Legendarium shift, but rather a real world one. |
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