Elves becoming rustic folk - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elianna · 11-21-2004, 06:25 PM

Burrahobbit:

I never said living in Aman would make one less close to nature. The Elves became closer to the nature of Middle-earth, and did not wish to leave it. I suppose the relavance of my post was to provide a reasoning on why the Elves would choose to stay and dwindle from their former glory.

HerenIstarion · 11-22-2004, 12:00 PM

Um. Er. Cough..cough...

Me and my long tongue. In cooperation, we have put ourselves into trouble before this. Yet we can't stand aside. I hope you'll forgive my meddling in your affairs at the outset, and let me make a little bit of commentary:

Dear Elianna and Alchisiel, and all who are not yet acquainted with burrahobbit (since he was absent for a long while), you should not get offended at his laconic remarks (often to the point, mind you), as, I believe, they are not expressions of hostility of arrogance, but merely style, or mode of expression he assumed and which fits him well. As I've said, they are often to the point, besides, short does not imply rude or offensive, them being three distinct words

With that, I suggest we could all move on on amicable terms

PS. You're welcome to throw rotten vegetables at yours truly, for interfering, of course

drigel · 11-23-2004, 09:38 AM

Second off, silly Haldir - where do you think mallorn trees originated>? hehe
I would say that the elves that chose to stay in ME used free will, no?

Mithalwen · 11-23-2004, 12:44 PM

I don't want to reopen wounds but I think the poem, does raise a relevant point.
For the Noldorin exiles, going to Valinor is going home, for the Silvan elves it is not. However wonderful it is, it is not home - Legolas even seems to regard Galadriel's message as "speaking of his death". I think there is a strong sense of the importance of "home" in Tolkien's work. So much of the tragedy is in the displacement of individuals and peoples. Look at the deep desire of the dwarves to return to their ancient homes in Moria and Erebor and the continuing nostalgia among the dunedain for Numenor. The premature decline and death of Finduilas (mother of Faramir and Boromir) is linked in part to her displacement from Dol Amroth and there are many other examples.

I have been lucky enough to travel around much of the world and have lived abroad and may do so again - but the idea of severing my ties permanently with the UK and in particular the rather beautiful area where I grew up and to which I have returned, somewhat horrific - even though I spend a lot of time plotting escape.

davem · 11-23-2004, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

For the Noldorin exiles, going to Valinor is going home, for the Silvan elves it is not. However wonderful it is, it is not home - Legolas even seems to regard Galadriel's message as "speaking of his death"

This is something that has always struck me. Tolkien does say somewhere that all the Elves feel dran to the West, & even the Sindar would feel that desire if something caused it to awaken in them. Yet it would not be a desire for 'home'. What this 'desire' would be is difficult to say. My fanfic 'Orophin Dreams of the Waters of Awakening' was my attempt to deal with this very issue, & I tried to explore the nature of the two conflicting deisres - of the West & of home. How well I achieved that aim is another thing entirely. But I do think its worth considering.

**The Saucepan Man** · 11-23-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

Tolkien does say somewhere that all the Elves feel dran to the West, & even the Sindar would feel that desire if something caused it to awaken in them. Yet it would not be a desire for 'home'.

The quote which forms the basis of this thread implies that there were Elves who remained in Middle-earth. I wonder whether that was because the desire was not awoken in them or because it was not sufficiently strong in them to wrench them away from the land that was their home. Did some Elves just not feel the 'pull' as much as others?

drigel · 11-24-2004, 08:01 AM

Avari: I would think that if one feels compelled to refuse the summons of the Valar at the onset, there is not much else that could persuade one. The only factor time would have, is if possibly there had been enough tragedy or suffering to an individual, that the decision to leave the corporal world is made.

11-21-2004, 06:25 PM	#1
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Burrahobbit: I never said living in Aman would make one less close to nature. The Elves became closer to the nature of Middle-earth, and did not wish to leave it. I suppose the relavance of my post was to provide a reasoning on why the Elves would choose to stay and dwindle from their former glory. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

11-22-2004, 12:00 PM	#2
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	Um. Er. Cough..cough... Me and my long tongue. In cooperation, we have put ourselves into trouble before this. Yet we can't stand aside. I hope you'll forgive my meddling in your affairs at the outset, and let me make a little bit of commentary: Dear Elianna and Alchisiel, and all who are not yet acquainted with burrahobbit (since he was absent for a long while), you should not get offended at his laconic remarks (often to the point, mind you), as, I believe, they are not expressions of hostility of arrogance, but merely style, or mode of expression he assumed and which fits him well. As I've said, they are often to the point, besides, short does not imply rude or offensive, them being three distinct words With that, I suggest we could all move on on amicable terms PS. You're welcome to throw rotten vegetables at yours truly, for interfering, of course __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! Last edited by HerenIstarion; 11-23-2004 at 06:19 PM. Reason: code

11-23-2004, 12:44 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I don't want to reopen wounds but I think the poem, does raise a relevant point. For the Noldorin exiles, going to Valinor is going home, for the Silvan elves it is not. However wonderful it is, it is not home - Legolas even seems to regard Galadriel's message as "speaking of his death". I think there is a strong sense of the importance of "home" in Tolkien's work. So much of the tragedy is in the displacement of individuals and peoples. Look at the deep desire of the dwarves to return to their ancient homes in Moria and Erebor and the continuing nostalgia among the dunedain for Numenor. The premature decline and death of Finduilas (mother of Faramir and Boromir) is linked in part to her displacement from Dol Amroth and there are many other examples. I have been lucky enough to travel around much of the world and have lived abroad and may do so again - but the idea of severing my ties permanently with the UK and in particular the rather beautiful area where I grew up and to which I have returned, somewhat horrific - even though I spend a lot of time plotting escape. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

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11-23-2004, 09:38 AM	#3
drigel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: commonplace city Posts: 518	Second off, silly Haldir - where do you think mallorn trees originated>? hehe I would say that the elves that chose to stay in ME used free will, no?

11-24-2004, 08:01 AM	#7
drigel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: commonplace city Posts: 518	Avari: I would think that if one feels compelled to refuse the summons of the Valar at the onset, there is not much else that could persuade one. The only factor time would have, is if possibly there had been enough tragedy or suffering to an individual, that the decision to leave the corporal world is made.