LotR -- Book 2 - Chapter 08 - Farewell to Lórien

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bb

The more I think about the old Celtic tales the more I think we should have a thread devoted to the uses Tolkien might have made of them. There is something more here than the oft-stated desire to create a mythology for England. What do you think, davem?

I'd happily start (or at least contribute to) such a thread - but who's read the Mabinogion here? Shippey goes into Tolkien's sources in depth, & along with Beowulf, Kalevala & the Eddas, we can find many 'lesser' sources which Tolkien has made use of. I also suspect that there are many sources with which he was familiar which we'll never know. Sir Orfeo, Gawain & the Green Knight also influenced him; there are ceertainly 'echoes' of Pearl in the vision of Lothlorien. Even the siegelhearwen make an appearance. But there's also another source - contemporary literature: Blackwood, Dunsany ('Possible Echoes of Blackwood & Dunsany in Tolkien's Fiction' in Tolkien Studies vol1) & Rider-Haggard ('Gagool & Gollum: Exemplars of Degeneration in King Solomon's Mines & The Hobbit' in Tolkien & His Literary Resonances).

Still, this is a bit off topic, so I'll think about a thread.

[davem]

Quick thought.

The Lady bowed her head, & she turned then to Boromir, & to him she gave a belt of gold; & to Merry & Pippin she gave small silver belts, each with a clasp wrought like a golden flower.

Belt: to award a belt, or to invest formally with one, as in conferring Knighthood; adjBelted:wearing a belt, eg of a knight. (Collins Dictionary)

Belt. Belted A reference to the belt & spurs with which Knights were invested. (Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase & Fable)

Well, Boromir is already a ‘Knight’, & both Merry & Pippin will become ‘Knights’ in the course of their journeys.

Is this another example of Galadriel’s ability to see into the future?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

A brief additional off topic observation on Tolkien and Ireland:
It's curious how he seemed, whle liking Ireland as a country and its people,
not to be especially taken with its language or mythology. Two excerpts from "Letters":

I do know Celtic things (many in their original languages Irish and Welsh), and feel for them a certain distaste: largely for their fundamental unreason. They have bright colour, but are like a broken stained glass window reassembled without design.

#19

(I) find both Gaelic and the air of Ireland wholly alien- though the latter (not the language) is attractive.

# 165.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Thanks for that information, davem! That does put the presents which are underrated and least discussed in another light!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I have two footnotes to this chapter which came to my attention:

First of all, was Boromir's disdain of Faërie one of the causes of his downfall?

But what I have heard seems to me for the most part old wives' tales, such as we tell to our children.

Celeborn, a personage of living legend for a Gondorian, reprimands him, and that seems to me to echo Tolkien's sentiments in his essay On Fairy Stories and his poem Mythopoeia, where he defends the value of fairy tales and myths, especially for adults.

The second thing I noted is Galadriel's selflessness; in promoting Aragorn's cause and his courtship of Arwen, she knows that she will lose her granddaughter eternally (or whatever is equivalent to that with the Elves). Perhaps this is noticeable especially in contrast to Movie-Elrond's attitude, although his book character is nowhere near to being that negative. This is a sacrifice that we cannot measure.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Yes, davem, thank you muchly for the info re: belts and knighthood. Somewhere above (too lazy to look or link it) I argued that Galadriel, in her gift giving, seems to be far more about endings/Home than Celeborn, who is about the present/Road. Boromir, Pippin and Merry were rather tricky in my argument, as I had no idea how their gifts related to their endings. . .but now I do!

I also like how this ties Boromir/Pippin/Merry together ever more closely. I'm not sure that I would see Boromir as 'already a knight' however, but would strive instead to hold on to the idea (put forward by davem) that Boromir is on a journey of growth and maturation of his own. At this point in the book, I think we can see him as an untried knight: he's not really been useful or effective in a fight yet, his heart has been sorely tested by the Lady in the Castle Perilous, and he's been found a bit wanting. But when it comes time to lay down his life for Merry and Pippin, I think that he will show himself to be proper knight hood material.

Hmm. . .Pippin and Merry are made knights when they offer allegiance to Denethor and Theoden: perhaps Boromir does not fully grow into knighthood until he finally offers allegiance and love (and is given both in return) to Aragorn?? But that will have to wait for the appropriate chapter.

[davem]

I think that Gladriel's symbolic knighting of these three is incredibly moving - especially given the awkward, antagonistic, attitude of Boromir to Galadriel.

I did skim through Gawain & the Green Knight, & found that Gawain is given a green-gold belt by Bercilak's wife, which he is told will save his life in the coming confrontation with the Green Knight.

As both Boromir & Gawain are on a perilous journey ending in a confrontation with death (which Gawain survives & Boromir does not), I did wonder if Tolkien was using the Gawain myth in the Boromir story. I don't want to push it too far, but the hero's journey to a mysterious wood or castle, the encounter with the Lord & Lady of that place, & the giving of a symbolic/magical belt before the hero departs for his last battle seems perhaps a bit too coincidental.

[mark12_30]

The departure from Lorien echoes Frodo's dream and also forsees his sailing.

Dreaminess; grey, silver, light, glass, rain; water; distant green country; sweet singing over the water; and shining-- shining song, shining veil of rain, shining phial, shining lady.

And for those from whom the song is receeding-- grey silent grief, sinking into the darkness of night, with only the noise of the water against the shore.

(I've always wondered what a 'hythe' was and I finally looked it up: a small 'havens'.)

From Bombadil's house, second night:

But either in his dreams or out of them, he could not tell which, Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind: a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a grey rain-curtain, and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until at last it was rolled back, and a far green country opened before him under a swift sunrise.

*****

From Farewell to Lorien:

Frodo took the phial, and for a moment as it shone between them, he saw her again standing like a queen, great and beautiful, but no longer terrible. He bowed, but found no words to say.

Now the Lady arose, and Celeborn led them back to the Hythe. A yellow noon lay on the green land of the Tongue, and the water glittered with silver. All at last was made ready. The company took their places in the boats as before. Crying farewell, the Elves of Lorien with long grey poles thrust them out into the flowing stream, and the rippling waters bore them slowly away. The travellers sat still without moving or speaking. On the green bank near to the very point of the tongue the Lady Galadriel stood alone and silent. As they passed her they turned and their eyes watched her slowly floating away from them. For so it seemed to them: Lorien was slipping backward, like a bright ship masted with enchanted trees, sailing on to forgotten shores, while they sat helpless upon the margin of the grey and leafless world.

... Soon the white form of the Lady was small and distant. She shone like a window of glass upon a far hill in the westering sun, or as a remote lake seen from a mountain: a crystal fallen in the lap of the land. Then it seemed to Frodo that she lifted her arms in a final farewell, and far but piercing-clear on the following wind came the sound of her voice singing. But now she sang in the ancient tongue of the elves beyond the sea... "...Farewell! Maybe thou shalt find Valimar. Maybe even thou shalt find it. Farewell!"

...all their eyes were filled with tears. ...The breeze died away and the river flowed without a sound. No voice of bird broke the silence... ...a grey and starless night. Far into the dark quiet hours they floated on... Frodo sat and listened to the faint lap and gurgle of the River ... until his head nodded and he fell into an uneasy sleep.

The long poles emphasize that once he chooses to enter the boat, Frodo is a passenger, dependant on the elves and the water.

*****
From The Grey Havens:

Galadriel sat upon a white palfrey and was robed all in glimmering white, like clouds about the moon; for she herself seemed to shine with a soft light. On her finger was Nenya, the ring wrought of Mithril, that bore a single white stone flickering like a frosty star.

.....

The sails were drawn up, and the wind blew, and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth; and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore glimmered and was lost. And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the west, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtaiin turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.

But to Sam the evening deepened to darkness as he stood at the Haven; and as he looked at the grey sea he saw only a shadow on the waters that was soon lost in the West. There still he stood far into the night, hearing only the sigh and murmur of the waves on the shores of Middle-earth, and the sound of them sank deep into his heart. Beside him stood Merry and Pippin, and they were silent.