Elves and the Tuatha de Danaans

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Frodo Baggins

I was talking with a good friend of mine several weeks ago about a few things and they brought up the fact that Tolkien's inspiration for the Elves was based on a people of Irish legend, (that are based on fact, I assure you they were real people) known as the Tuatha de Danaan.

It is said that the Tuatha de Dannans lived in Ireland before the people known as Fomorians, who are related to the Phoenecians and came to Ireland from Spain and France. The Fomorians opressed the Danaans and eventually defeated them, but they did eventually merge into one people, the Celts. There are similarites between the Danaans and the Elves:

Aftern the Danaans were defeated the retreated to remote places and became known as Fairies or as some called them Elves or "shee" in the Irish. The Danaan are descrbed as Fairies that live underground in caves. In The Silmarillion it says "Then the Quendi wandered into the lonely places of the great lands and the isles, and took to the moonlight and starlight[in Irish lore, fairies came out at night],and into the woods and caves, becoming as shadows and memories, save those who ever and anon set sail into the West and vanished from Middle-Earth." I believe in LOTR Galadriel also said something about elves that never left Middle-Earth dwindled and lived in caves.

It is said in Irish legend that the Danaans had vast knowledge, and were especially talented healers and Musicians (hint hint). It is also said that the Danaans carried long leaf-shaped swords(remember, many elvish swords were leaf-shaped). It is also noted that some of the outsiders that encountered them thought they were gods (remember htat the first men that came to Beleriand thought Finrod Felagund was one of the Valar).

So are they Elves? The de Danaans were real people, and no mistake for that, but legend has a wierd way of twisting reality. What do you think?

Not to be mean but, i believe you have the Fomorians confused with the Milisians. After their defeat, the Danaan retreated underground, preferibly hills. Thus, later becoming "Faery Knolls", "Faery Hills", or "Faery courts". Once in awhile they invited humans to join their courts for sleep and rest, which usually one night became more like several years. This also became associated with "Faery rings" circle groupings of toadstools or other fungi that were considered dangerious to enter into. (One common fact in Irish folk myth was to make sure you had at least one foot outside of the circle, thus avoiding the fact that you would be swept into a circlear dance with the faeries for about seven years, even though to the tresspasser it might seem only several minutes.) As for the Danaans weapons they did carry leaf-shaped weapons, otherwise called "elf shot" or "elf arrow". It was considered both an good an ill luck to aquire or stumble upon one of these.

Some great references for those who are interested in learning more about these wonderful people are listed below:

Faeries by: Brian Froud and Allen Lee

Celtic myth and Magic by: Edian McCoy

Where have the Giants gone? by: Brian Froud

Hope this aids the thread see you all soon!

Blessed Be,
THE Ka