Denethor and Gandalf, total opposites?

[ohtatyaro]

not the moronic movie characterization of Denethor

yes. definitely yes! Or, no, definitely no!

I mean I agree

[Isowen]

I think Gandalf was wrong to hide truth from Denethor, as Gondor is his city. And Denethor was being very stubborn so I doubt they could have won without the help of either of them. So Gandalf should have been a bit "nicer" to Denethor, after all his son had just died and in come two complete strangers telling him how to rule his city! And Denethor should have been open to suggestions, if he really cared about Gondor, but I suppose it is hard to trust people you've known for little time! Gandalf did most of the battle work while Denethor was up in the citadel setting fire to himself and his son!

[Voralphion]

Gandalf was not supposed to care about the east

Actually he was and did, he just thought that the best resistance to Sauron would come from the west, primarily the remaining elves, the descendents of the edain and their allies such as Rohan.
Denethor was entirely focused on Gondor and therefore his own power. He thought very little of the other inhabitants of Middle Earth including Gondor's allies. He thought of Sauron as a political rival, as someone who should be defeated because he infringed on Gondor's power not someone who should be defeated because they are a tyrant and are evil.

[ohtatyaro]

Very good post, Voralphion

He thought of Sauron as a political rival, as someone who should be defeated because he infringed on Gondor's power not someone who should be defeated because they are a tyrant and are evil.

And this is basically true. But not quite. I mean, people are not ready to die becuase of merely political rivalry, are they? Denethor says something like 'better be dead than enslaved', I just can't find the quote

The key to Denethor's failure lies far deeper in the history of men and can be traced back to the Akallabeth: "[death] became a grief to them only because coming under the shadow of Morgoth it seemed to them that they were surrounded by a great darkness, of which they were afraid; and some grew wilful and proud" (The Silmarillion). The weekness that we see in Denethor is the same weakness that brought the Numenoreans to Darkness. Seeing his sons die and the ending of the line of the Stuards of Gondor, the shaddow of death desended on him and he grew afraid. By the time Gandalf came to Minus Tirth he had already conquered Death and come back. The chief juxtaposition between the two charactors is that Denethor is "under the shaddow" and Gandalf is submerged in Light. Therefore I would say that yes the they where both instrimental in the defence of Gondor, Denethor through death, sacrifice and grief (the price paid by all involved in war), and Gandalf in the defence against the very power of the ring, which is fear.