Cellar Door

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

sounds much better to me as an Englishman would say it than with American pronuciation

Perhaps that's my problem... I find the only down side of being American is the "Americanization" of the English language. "I don't speak English, I speak American." Well, I say revert to English... it's a prettier language than the garble most people consider speech around here. That and MacDonalds... can't go anywhere without seeing gigantic, mustard yellow, arches glaring at me. But back to my point; how exactly would 'cellar door' be pronounced in English English? I didn't realize it would have that much difference...

Fea

[The Saucepan Man]

Well then, in Welsh, for me *cellar doors* are extraordinarily frequent ...

But wouldn't "cellar door" in Welsh (and indeed Elvish) be pronounced Kellar Door? Hmm, Celedor - a relative of Celeborn, perhaps?

That and MacDonalds... can't go anywhere without seeing gigantic, mustard yellow, arches glaring at me.

Alas, I think that you'll find that's the same the world over these days.

Well, I say revert to English... it's a prettier language than the garble most people consider speech around here.

Well you know what they say - the Americans and the English: a people divided by a common language.

OK, first lesson:

Garbage = Rubbish
Hood = Bonnet
Color = Colour
Sidewalk = Pavement
Apartment = Flat
Movie = Film
Theatre = Cinema

...

Hehe, I could go on for ever ...

[Lalaith]

Saucepan Man, I think Tolkien used "cellar door" there to describe a kind of generic moment of aural appreciation, and he meant that Welsh was full of those kind of 'moments'.
I rarely hear Welsh spoken, but I do love the accent. The English are generally rather snooty and unkind about the Welsh so I'm glad Tolkien sticks up for them.

Rimbaud - hehe, I know what you mean, I got all excited as soon as I saw the words 'cellar door' written on the blackboard...
Mirabella, I too spent some years thinking "seleborn" and "selebrian" to myself, when I read the books. I still find the hard C difficult to remember, particularly "kelebrian" which sounds a bit masculine to me.

[Lalaith]

Oh, and I did actually think of the Barrowdowns while watching the film, even before the 'cellar door' reference...when the school bans the Graham Greene story, I thought of the poor kids on here whose schools censor Tolkien, Harry Potter etc.

[The Saucepan Man]

Saucepan Man, I think Tolkien used "cellar door" there to describe a kind of generic moment of aural appreciation, and he meant that Welsh was full of those kind of 'moments'.

Doh! Sometimes I think that my attempts at (so-called) humour are entirely unsuitable for the internet format, smilies or no smilies. Sorry Lalaith, I did follow Tolkien's reasoning, but was just being impertinent.

The English are generally rather snooty and unkind about the Welsh so I'm glad Tolkien sticks up for them.

As someone with Welsh blood, and despite taking great pride in England, my country of birth, I'm with the Professor on that one.

[Lalaith]

*bows* No, it was me being slow on the uptake. Late night last night, you understand.

[mark12_30]

OK, so Kellar Dewar was Tolkien's favorite "sound". More or less.

So what's yours? What is the word or phrase that you think is prettiest of all? And if you had to invent a language around it, what kind of people would speak the language, and what kind of mythology would they have? Are there any sounds you would leave out entirely? Why?

I'm sure we'll all do this anyway, but of course, your answers should be Tolkien-related. Otherwise count this as food-for-thought.

If your favorite word would make a good springboard for a new Middle-Earth race, language, and mythos, how would it fit in?

You are of course free to create your own language, people, and corresponding mythology as Tolkien himself did; naturally, this thread is not the place to do that. May i recommend the "Are you writing serious fantasy" thread, or perhaps lmp's excellent worldbuilding projects in FaerieWordWeavers.

[davem]

I really think Tolkien's pronunciation would have been 'selador'. He did say it was the most beautiful sound in the english language, not in the Elven tongue.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I rarely hear Welsh spoken, but I do love the accent. The English are generally rather snooty and unkind about the Welsh so I'm glad Tolkien sticks up for them.

Of course, the name 'Welsh' is an Anglo-saxon insult (from waelas = 'foreigners'). They call themselves Cymru. It used to be legal until a few centuries back for the English to kill any Welshmen who strayed over the border!(The law has since been repealed.)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

There is a certain sound, that, try as I might, I cannot find a letter configuration to illustrate. At least not in the Americanized English language. Well, I can, but only in some cases. Bare with me for a moment:

In the American pronunciation of the word 'garage' (also 'mirage' and 'massage'), there is a sort of a soft buzz to the end syllable. If you abruptly end the words (as most people do), you are left with a harsh "J" sound. If not, saying the word 'garage' aloud, you should be able to hear what I mean. How can you create a word using that sound in the beginning?

Secondly... a word that I really like is "occasionally." It has all of my favorite sounds in it; sounds that I connect with different races of Middle Earth:

'Occ': The hard 'c' brings to mind the 'k's in Khazad Dum and many other Dwarven words. It is harsh and shocking, not much pleasant to hear or say, but it does grow on you.

'Asion': This I find a little harder to connect to Middle Earth, however it is another way of spelling out my pet sound. As is said further down this thread, the French have spelled it for me! Therefore, this is the word's tie to the Men of Middle Earth. As with Men, my 'j' sound seems to take a little time to develop a fondness for, but as with the hard 'c', it also grows on you.

'Ally': My word's tie to the Elves. The 'l's slur together beautifully, bringing to mind the ringing of small bells. It is a soft and natural sound, with no harshness to it at all.

Occasionally... lovely to say, and has an interesting connexion to Tolkien's work. I'm beginning to grow on "Cellar Door" though... The good professor was right.

Fea