Annoying experts

[Lalwendë]

I think one of the many wonderful things about Tolkien is that you can never know everything - there's always something new to learn. So there are no total experts! But I know what you mean about people who do think they know everything. Some people think I know a lot, e.g. I'm always the one called upon to settle arguments, but I know I'm no expert! Half the time I have to say "I'll have to look that up when I get home, because I don't know".

I pronounce a few of the names incorrectly, but that's because when I first read the book as a kid, I had my own idea of how the names would sound, and even though since then I know better, those original impressions stay in my mind.

As for being annoying, one day there had been a four way conversation (shouted across the office) that had lasted all morning at work, close on the heels of several weeks' worth of assorted other Tolkien conversations. At the end of this one morning a colleague in the corner stood up and shouted "No! I've had enough of this!" and stomped out.

[Laitoste]

I'm so jealous of anyone who has known an annoying expert! I don't even know a regular expert! (aside from around the Downs, and none of those are annoying!) I most certainly am not an expert (in anything), although I know more about The Lord of the Rings than anyone else in my town. (or I don't know that they know more than me)

[The Only Real Estel]

I agree with Meela that experts are usually perfectly fine, & even when they're not I can still learn something from them. The only thing that annoys me a bit is when someone goes into a short summary of the life of a character just to answer a question that would've taken one sentence to say. Or, worse yet, all they ever wanted to do was agree but decided to expound upon every tidbit of the character's character. It comes across as: I'm throwing a bunch of facts out here (99% of them everyone already knew) to show that I know quite a bit about this character; though I'm sure they don't mean to come across that way. It mostly happens with newbies, they think that most of the people here know little about Tolkien so they decide to start of with a good post full of education for those that know far less than them ( I'll admit my first few posts on this site followed that line ).

Cheers,
Estel

[Lalwendë]

Heh, I'm sure I've done exactly that kind of thing many a time! I was once asked why Elrond was sometimes referred to as 'half-elven' and I was still there half an hour later while this poor guy was sitting nodding and going 'um, yeah'. If he'd had some matchsticks I'm sure he'd have used them to prop his eyelids open. I put it down to enthusiasm, that's all!

[The Only Real Estel]

I put it down to enthusiasm, that's all!

Well as long as you're still on the topic of Elrond & why he's called half-elven (giving yourself a little room to stray), it's when you start talking about how Elrond's mother-in-law was Galadriel, who married Celeborn, etc. that it gets pointless .



http://www.flashplayer.com/music/haveuforgotten.html
click on view title button & listen to the lyrics while you watch)

[Knight of Gondor]

Folks, you know you do sound ever complaining . Some people annoy you as they are amateurs, the rest are hated for being experts. What are you after, than? The standard, the image of ideal Tolkien fan I crave for!

Not so, HerenIstarion! We’re talking about people of both breeds that are annoying in either their amateurity or their “expertise”. I don’t think anyone is annoyed (nor would be justified in being so!) because anyone is either learned in Tolkien, or ignorant of his works.

Middle aged, well-of, happily married and well employed, parent of two blondish blue-eyed infants and, of course, psychologically balanced?

Um...probably not exactly, since I’m young, poor, single, unemployed (I’m still a student), I don’t have any kids, and I’m sure one or two people could contest the claim of being psychologically balanced. (Any guy that spends three hours hitting the redial button in the hopes of getting on The Sean Hannity Show might be semi-insane...but I don’t know, because it worked!)

Don't you just hate those people who back up their assertions with quotes from Tolkien's Letters and thereby kill a thread?

Provided that letters confirm the assertion, can't see what goes wrong there

I suppose so, but I can understand where, in most cases, a definitive answer from Tolkien’s own hand kills the reason for discussion because it answers the point of debate completely. (Usually)

Can we say "Canonicity?"

Yes, but we can’t define it.

“Experts are never annoying, only interesting."

That’s just because no person who thought himself an expert came up and annoyed Mr. Tolkien.

I'm guilty of every variety of correcting people's pronuncations. Even though I'm by no means as much of an expert as, say...well, 99.95% of the experts on the Forum...I always correct how people say things - especially when they try to pronounce the Elvish names for things. Although my friends are just like me, so we can be annoying in pretentious as a unit at least.

You know, along the lines of defining the “typical” Tolkien fan, I would think that the “typical” fan would WANT to learn the different pronunciations, the correct ones, provided that they are not given in a manner that boarders on arrogance. And we should all keep in mind that we were all once bumbling amateurs too. I used to think it was “Sar-ROO-man”, not “SAR-uh-man.” And Galadriel’s husband was “Sel-a-born” before learning that C’s are hard in Elvish. (I got corrected on that Sar-roo-man pronunciation by my parents, who knew nothing of Tolkien, but knew that sar-roo-man, however the alternate spelling is, was actually a medical term for ear wax! :P)

The one that randomly pulls out The Sil references to go into everyday life without explaining them to the other people who haven't read The Silmarillion. Do any of you find yourself doing that?

Um...no.

[Knight of Gondor]

I have not met many annoying "experts." Okay, only one

Welcome, Araréiel! And yes, even one annoying expert counts.

and I couldn't stand him at all.

Well if he was nice, then he wouldn’t belong on the thread about annoying experts, now would he?

there've only been extremely annoying newbies who don't even care to learn, yet like to act like know-it-alls to impress people.

In which case you should, as you probably already have, visit the Annoying Amateurs thread. If nothing else, it will teach you how to type amateur without making a spelling mistake!

Are there any of those "experts" in California? Or others who want to learn more?

What you have to do is educate yourself to the best of your ability. And remember that when I say “expert”, we all mean as best as a person can hope to become as a civilian Tolkien fan. Yes, technically, no one but Tolkien and his son can be experts.

I really don't think anyone is an "expert" at Tolkien, maybe not even Tolkien himself.

I would think that Tolkien would know the most about his works...! But as I said above, when I say expert, I only mean as far or high as the average person can go in “expert” status.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Laitoste

I'm so jealous of anyone who has known an annoying expert! I don't even know a regular expert! (aside from around the Downs, and none of those are annoying!) I most certainly am not an expert (in anything), although I know more about The Lord of the Rings than anyone else in my town. (or I don't know that they know more than me)

I feel the same way However Sometimes the experts on this site do annoy me not intentionally of course and I understand they are trying to be nice correcting me when I'm wrong it just bugs me to be corrected

[Laitoste]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

... it just bugs me to be corrected

I know the feeling. My little brother does this just to show off. Although I don't feel so put out here when I'm corrected as on other sites. Don't know why, but that's why I stick around!

[Gil-Galad]

one thing that bugs me pretty bad is if somebody asks a question about Tolkiens works, so i give them an anwser...well 2 hours later some other person anwsers it but the same thing i said with a little more words to it...there always trying to be better then other people...i mean come on! not everybody is perfect! nobody can know everything about LotR or Tolkien...

[Morsul the Dark]

Indeed I enjoy this site because most to all of the people here are nice I was in a chat room enjoying the conversation about lotr and then this guy obnoxiously puts down the movies stating every little flaw an annoying expert an even more annoying critic granted PJ didn't make lotr perfect put he certainly came close

Some experts need to become experts at being quiet

[Isowen]

I've run into this a few times and some "experts" make some of it up.
For example if I said something about lotr (which I often do) they would contradict me, thinking that I don't have a clue about lotr and when I ask them to prove it, they can't!
I think if you are an "expert" think about how you can prove it before you open your mouth! and I mean that in the happiest way possible