Tolkien and the Monsters

[HerenIstarion]

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

The root of evil is not Sauron or any other positivist ‘presence’ but the desire for “evil knowledge” (this is still a bit ambiguous: what makes certain knowledge “evil”?). The most evil thing one can do, then, is willingly to seek after that “evil knowledge".

Professor Hedgethistle, sir, I would rather say (repeat) it's pride, but I can not back myself up unless you let me pick up the copies of HoME I so prompty hid under my desk when requested. The short summary of my argument may be stated thus:

*H-I mumbles quickly unless he's stopped by Severus Hedgethistle

Melkor's corruption starts with his seek for the Fire, but it is not knowledge he is after. The rest of the baddies* as I argued in my previous but one, take after him.

Originally Posted by davem

Whether this is deliberate on Tolkien's part is the question - maybe it came through unconsciously (maybe he was part of some Christian conspiracy to 'twist' Pagan sacred symbols

Have you been reading much of Dan Brown lately?

(ultimate speculation warning alert (USWA) running red at this point):

Um, um, Mother Goddess, you say? May well be the case - after all, Tolkien was going to some pains to reconcile pre-Crhistian world of 'good pagans' with his own faith. Ungoliant/Morgoth pair** (besides Morgoth (by himself) being analogy to Lucifer) were opposed to Manwe/Varda. Latter may be representations of Earth Mother and Sky Father (not that direct, for Varda was "Queen of Heaven" too). That'd be in accordance with ancient mythology.

And than, moving on with the times (as in our world too it replaced ancient mythology), we transfer to Maiden/Mother/Crone. But if you go for MMC triple Goddess, you'll need another Mother, for Galadriel seems more into Crone business, as Shelob is way too horrible to fit in. May it be Celebrían to fill the vacancy? Than there will be direct line to fill all of the aspects, and Shelob would oppose all three.

But, as USWA indicates, we may be reading too much into it. And yet again, maybe not. I would not be surprised to learn that all of what we muse over in our 'symbolism' discussions is just an upper level of Tolkien as onion (to use Child's wonderfull expression)

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*(Ungoliant and her spawn included)
** (I wonder what Freud would have rumbled out concerning the black spear and killing of the trees (and sun and moon born as a result of it)***
*** Not that I believe a word out of Freud****
**** Except some few