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#1 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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I have recently returned from my business trip to Wisconsin for ten days, and it seems I have missed a lot. I will have to read this third chapter before I get more in depth, but here are some of my thoughts as well.
Tolkien definately makes a connection between Frodo and Bilbo, and also a difference. The connection being Frodo and Bilbo both got "adventurous" approaching their 50th birthday, and the fact that they also have the same birth date. Frodo through the beginning chapters also goes on a lot of advice from Bilbo (which I believe has been specifically pointed out). There is a quick distinction between Frodo and Bilbo I caught with a deeper reading. Bilbo is the only person to willingly give up the ring (with some help from Gandalf). Bilbo had carried this ring for what, some 60 years and he gave up the ring fairly easily. Frodo has the ring for a lesser 17 years, as far as we know barely ever uses it (if he even does) and is already reluctant on "destroying" it. Instead of throwing it into the fire like he wants to, he puts it in his pocket. I'm sure 17 years of this ring would already have a hold on people but seems like Bilbo was able to last out longer then Frodo, and resist longer then Frodo. Aiwendil posted Quote:
This is quite true, with an example right of the top of my head, it was stated in the Siege of Gondor, whenever Gandalf was around the hearts of men rose, but when he left they sunk again. Gandalf is definately a mentor, leader, and one of the more powerful people in Middle-Earth. Thing is if Gandalf isn't there leading the men or people they quickly sink back to their old low morale. As I read one I will probably find out examples but this is one off the top of my head. and... Quote:
You finish the book with Gandalf not going to the shire, telling the hobbits they must do this alone, and they succeed, because through their journey they have grown, to the point where they don't need someone like a Gandalf around (although it's always good to have a Gandalf around). |
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#2 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#3 | |
Laconic Loreman
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#4 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#5 | |||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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As Aiwendil said: Quote:
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
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#6 | |
Laconic Loreman
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#7 |
Laconic Loreman
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Random, but 2 major thoughts on this chapter:
The amount of times in this chapter Frodo, Sam and Pippin rest underneath or inside trees. Or the amount of times the hobbits use trees for protection when avoiding the Black Rider(s). It's really setting me up for the "when trees go bad" chapter of the books. The amount of times Gandalf's disappearance, or Gandalf not leaving with Frodo is brought up. I'm thinking about the joke thread on Bombur's characterization in the Hobbit. It felt like every time Bombur got mentioned in the books it's with "fat." It's like "In case you didn't know, Bombur is fat." And this chapter it's "Hey did you hear? Gandalf is missing." I'm not saying that as it's a bad thing though! I quite like it, because it's not like we are unfamiliar with Gandalf's disappearing acts. He does it quite randomly in The Hobbit, but I think the purpose for these constant reminders in Three is Company that Gandalf is indeed, not there is to reinforce Gandalf's not being with Frodo at this time is different then the handful of times he disappeared from Thorin's company. Gandalf left Thorin's company, and they get into a sticky situation with trolls. Gandalf comes back in the nick of time to save them, and tells them he left to scout out their path ahead. He makes a quick exit to avoid being captured by goblins and comes back to save the dwarves. He leaves them before entering Mirkwood and tells the dwarves he'll meet them before entering the mountain and in this instance Gandalf is not there when he says he will be. So, we start to think alright something bad happened to Gandalf to not be there. It's not Gandalf's disappearing, coming and going, that is troubling, because we should be aware that's what Gandalf "the wizard" does. The reminders that Gandalf is not there is meant to make us concerned this is more like his leaving the dwarves at Mirkwood and not being there to meet them before entering Erebor. Something has prevented Gandalf from being where he said he would be and we are meant to be worried about his disappearance this time! This is hammered home towards the end of the chapter when Gildor says: "I do not like this news,...That Gandalf should be late, does not bode well." One thing for certain is when Gandalf is not there with our "green" adventurers, bad things happen. The question is, will Gandalf return in the nick of time to help our hobbits? And if not, who will? ![]()
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Fenris Penguin
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#8 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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I think it is Fordim who has cottoned on to what was bothering me about Servant Sam and Flip Pip--Fordim with his literary eye. I shall have to work harder to reach you literalists who love to quote the Letters! Sauce and Aiwendil and Silmiel, it is how the Edwardian structures were presented by Tolkien which drew my questions, not simply the purported historical references to the social organisation of the time. Remember, in On Fairey Stories Tolkien suggested that stuff gets into the Cauldron of Story not because it is historicallly true and verifiable(which it may be), but because the story demands it.
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Seen from this perspective, I think it is quite right that we are made uneasy (or at least I am) by all this 'sirring'. It 'sirs' the pot for later... But about this evolution of evil, Fordim, well, I don't want to get mixed up with your Monster thread. ![]()
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 07-08-2004 at 02:12 PM. |
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#9 | |
Gibbering Gibbet
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beyond cloud nine
Posts: 1,844
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So it just occured to me: Middle-Earth is saved by the Gaffer! |
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