LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 03 - Three Is Company

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Fingolfin II you wrote that in his conversation with Gildor

Frodo is gradually beginning to learn that there is more outside the familiar square of the Shire and that he- as well as other hobbits- have to learn how to deal with the outside world and leave their comfort zone.

The irony of their conversation is precisely that it is taking place inside the Shire. So there is much more inside their familiar world than they are aware of. The "comfort zone" that they live in is explicitly not a geographical one with impermeable fences and borders, but a state of mind. If you are aware of Elves (like Frodo) and/or receptive to meeting them (like Sam) you have a shot at meeting Elves in your own backyard! However, it apparently works the same way with the dark and dangerous things: Black Riders are inside the Shire as well. So while I agree that there is a definite sense of inside and outside, us and them, in the Shire, the line between these realms is clearly drawn only in the minds of the Shire's residents -- well, not Frodo's, and after this meeting not Sam's either: the first step in each of their educations. (For Sam, that there is a whole world of experience beyond his own (Elves)? For Frodo, that this world of experience contains darkness and despair (Black Riders) as well as hope?)

[Guinevere]

The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out.'

I agree with Fingolfin II that this "message" fits in with us humans as well - like Estelyn wrote in the other thread:

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

These wisdoms have proverbial quality and an innate worth that makes them timeless and applicable to my life. Again, the genius of Tolkien puts them not into the narration, but into Gandalf's words, showing us his deep wisdom - and Tolkien's as well.

In this chapter, it is Gildor who speaks these wisdoms.
The two well-known proverbs : "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards...." and "Go not to the Elves for counsel..." relate perhaps only to Middle-earth, but there is more timeless, applicable wisdom spoken by Gildor:

advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.

also:

Courage is found in unlikely places

btw thank you for the link to the "Elf-friend" thread, HI ! Some very enlightening insights there!

[Bêthberry]

For now, I have just a few quick observations, having enjoyed everyone's posts here!

I am struck by how quickly the presence of the evil is felt in this chapter, how close the Black Riders are to Frodo's trail. And the detail about the Riders sniffing around for the hobbits! It almost makes them bestial characters from perilous stories. I think the two near misses are the more ominous given that this is just the start of the journey, and the hobbits are still in The Shire, and that Gandalf is not around to counsel Frodo. And the fortuitous happenstance of the elven song driving the Rider away. Such a small touch but so significant!

To be honest, I don't like one small point in Sam's characterisation, his constantly using "sir" to speak to Frodo and Pippin. I understand of course how the story itself will wipe away that class distinction--and perhaps for that very reason Tolkien chose to have Sam use the title of respect for "higher ups"--but to me it is an uncomfortable mark of life in The Shire.

With all the hobbits' awe of the elves, it is nice to see that Tolkien added a touch of humour to the interactions here.

But we have no need of other company, and hobbits are so dull, they laughed.

Disjointed comments, I'm afraid, and not worthy of the very solid reflections and thoughtful posts here. Oh, and one last thought: does anyone know when Tolkien chose the chapter titles?

[Aiwendil]

Bethberry wrote:

To be honest, I don't like one small point in Sam's characterisation, his constantly using "sir" to speak to Frodo and Pippin. I understand of course how the story itself will wipe away that class distinction--and perhaps for that very reason Tolkien chose to have Sam use the title of respect for "higher ups"--but to me it is an uncomfortable mark of life in The Shire.

I agree and disagree.

I don't like class distinctions. I think that they're wrong. I think that the Shire is wrong to maintain them, just as so many real countries are wrong to maintain them.

But let's not confuse a moral evaluation with an evaluation of characterization. The fact is that class distinctions exist in the Shire, so Sam's use of "sir" is an accurate bit of characterization. Indeed, it would feel quite false if Sam did not show some degree of deference to Frodo and Pippin.

[The Saucepan Man]

As others have done, I will start out with a quick observation on the notorious fox. Aiwendil said:

This is, as far as I know, one of only two passages in the book that the ostensible authors (Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam) could not even in principle have known about. It raises the interesting but probably trivial question of whether Tolkien had at this stage thought of the hobbits as the authors, and whether he knowingly or unwittingly violated that fiction.

This incident could, of course, be put down to a little poetic licence on the part of Frodo when he came to write up the Red Book of Westmarch (or even an addition by Sam). But it is nevertheless a nice touch. As others have suggested, it marks a stage in the transition of the book from the cheerful and childlike tone of The Hobbit to the often dark and epic piece of writing that it ultimately to becomes.

The Shire remains a comfortable and familiar setting in many ways in this chapter. This, to me is suggested by the terms in which it is described, as well as by Frodo’s reluctance to leave and his nostalgic “last” look back at Hobbiton and the Water valley (both of which also, as Helen has pointed out, tie in with the “torn Frodo” theme). However, it is no longer the idyllic safe haven that it has, up to now, been portrayed as. The previous chapters have given us hints of darkness and danger, but these were always (with the exception of the Ring itself) outside the Shire or on its borders. Now, with the introduction of the Black Riders, we witness evil penetrating into the very heart of the Shire. This feeling is wonderfully summed up by Gildor’s words:

The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out.

As has been suggested in the discussions of the preceding chapters, Tolkien is presenting us, in the Shire, with a place with which we can identify. It is therefore all the more shocking to us that such a cosy and familiar land can so easily be penetrated by darkness and evil. As others have said, Gildor’s words serve as a warning to us all.

Moving on to the Black Riders themselves, Aiwendil said of the encounters with them in this chapter:

These episodes are no more or less than they ought to be: they are enough to indicate to us that the Hobbits are really in great danger and to make us nervous whenever hooves or dark shapes or sniffing is mentioned, but they are not so much that we yet know what sort of creatures these riders are, or what their powers are.)

I would agree with this, but there is much to be said for the way in which Tolkien builds up our understanding of them through these three encounters. Evisse the Blue said:

The first glimpse the hobbits get of them is meant to arouse curiosity in the reader, rather than satisfy it

Which is true. We learn very little about them in this chapter. However, each encounter adds a little bit more to our understanding and, perhaps more importantly, our impression of them. Fordim commented how Tolkien develops them throughout the book:

Reading over the posts I've thought of something about the Black Riders that I've not before. Like Frodo and the landscape through which he moves, they start out as relatively familiar things that only become more terrible and 'exotic' as the story goes on.

And, to my mind, this is (on a lesser scale) true of their portrayal in this chapter alone. As Azaelia of Willbottom said:

The suspence is built slowly but intensely and irresistably. There is fear, but not too much: like the readers, the hobbits don't fully comprehend the dangers they are facing.

And I think that it is worth examining the manner in which Tolkien builds up the suspense through his portrayal of the Black Riders, since I think that he achieves this wonderfully.

As Fordim has said, our (and Frodo’s) first encounter with a Black Rider is almost banal. He simply overhears “someone” asking the Gaffer as to his whereabouts. Frodo is not unduly concerned by the incident, assuming that it is simply another inquisitive and curious Hobbit, and we have no reason to think any different. Yet, there is a sense of unease:

Footsteps went away down the Hill. Frodo wondered vaguely why the fact that they did not come on up the Hill seemed a great relief.

And then there is the almost throw-away line “he thought better (or worse) of it …” suggesting that it might in fact have been better had Frodo questioned the Gaffer as to the identity of the inquirer. But there is nothing here to suggest his true (and terrifying) nature.

Our next encounter provides us with a description (which enables Sam to identify the Rider as the “strange customer” asking after Mr Baggins at Bagshot Row).

Round the corner came a black horse, no hobbit-pony but a full-sized horse; and on it sat a large man, who seemed to crouch in the saddle, wrapped in a great black cloak and hood, so that only his boots in the high stirrups showed below; his face was shadowed and invisible.

The description clearly suggests that this Rider may be a threat. He is a “large man” shrouded in black. His face is obscured. And he seems to be searching for travellers on the road. All of these factors suggest danger. Yet there is still nothing to suggest that he is anything other than a man (save perhaps for the disturbing “sniffing”). Frodo’s “sudden desire” to hide from the Rider, and his temptation to put on the Ring tell us that something is wrong. Yet, while the Hobbits are unnerved, they are not terrified (Frodo describes the incident as “queer and … disturbing”).

However, in the third encounter, Tolkien starts in earnest to bring out their fearsome and inhuman nature. The Rider is no longer described in terms of a man, but as “something dark” passing across the “lighter space between two trees”. Frodo sees no more than “the black shade of a horse led by a smaller black shadow”. The suspense is heightened yet further as the shadow starts to crawl towards him. Frodo’s desire to don the Ring is stronger than before. The images take on a nightmarish quality and we are left with the (correct) impression that there is more to this creature than simply a man shrouded in a black cloak.

The final piece of jigsaw is provided by Gildor’s refusal to tell Frodo what the Black Riders are. Personally, I’m with Frodo when he says that Gildor’s “hints and warnings” are more terrifying that anything that he might imagine (again “dehumanising” them). But finally we have confirmed what we have already suspected from their increasingly fearsome portrayal:

Is it not enough to know that they are Servants of the Enemy?

And so now we know enough about them to understand the terror that they bring when we next encounter them in the following chapter.

There's an interesting comparison to Frodo there - he and his friends finished off the Old Winyards at the birthday party. Is there a class difference between the wine and the beer drinkers in there? (Estelyn)

Undoubtedly. The difference, in terms of social class, between Sam and the other Hobbits has been evident from the beginning. Sam and his father go to the pub and drink beer, whereas the others have house parties and drink wine. Sam is Frodo’s gardener. Notably, Sam does not join Frodo, Merry, Pippin, Fatty and Folco for the birthday dinner (although he does take tea with Frodo and Pippin before they leave). Also, as others have suggested, the fact that Pippin “orders” Sam to prepare the breakfast and get the hot water when they wake up in their impromtu campsite, albeit (in my view) said jokingly, does suggest that he considers Sam in terms of a servant.

Like it or not (and much has been said on other threads on this topic), this is the character that Tolkien has chosen for Sam, at least at the outset, and these details, together with Sam addressing Frodo as “sir” are all, as Aiwendil has pointed out, necessary for his characterisation.

As I said in the discussion of it, I am not overly taken with Sam’s portrayal at end of the previous chapter since, to my mind, he verges on the buffoon of the Bakshi cartoon. There is, however, a line in this chapter which I think sums up Sam perfectly, and sets up what become essential aspects of his character: his selflessness and devotion to Frodo. Just as they are setting out on their journey, Frodo comments on the weight of his pack:

“I could take a lot more yet, sir. My packet is quite light,” said Sam stoutly and untruthfully.

Pippin’s response, too, helps to establish his light-hearted and cheeky nature:

“No you don’t, Sam! said Pippin. “It is good for him. He’s got nothing except what he ordered us to pack. He’s been slack lately and he’ll feel the weight less when he’s walked off some of his own.”

Frodo, of course, recognises Sam’s selflessness in having taken more than his fair share of the burden and resolves to address matters at their next packing. In just this one short, almost insignificant, conversation, Tolkien tells us volumes about his central characters.

Incidentally, I detected what I suspect might be a gentle pun in the Hobbits’ departure from Bag End. Frodo calls “Sam! Time!” to indicate to Sam that it is time to go, prompting Sam to appear from the cellar where he had been “saying farewell to the beer-barrel”. In pubs, the landlord calls “Time!” to signal the end of the period during which the premises are licensed to serve alcoholic beverages.

Finally, a minor gripe. The road which the Hobbits take through Green Hill Country is described as one which is “not much used, being hardly fit for carts”. I find this strange since, according to the map of the Shire, it is the only road to Tuckborough, which I should imagine to be a fairly large settlement.

Far too long, as usual. And too many "As X said"s. But then, you all make such wonderful points ...

[Hookbill the Goomba]

In my opinion, Tolkien is using this class distinction to make the transformation of the shire at the end more, (for loos of a better word) dramatic. If you look at how Lobelia sacvill Baggins is applauded for the first time at the end, I think that in this characterisation of Sam seeing the others as higher up shows how changes are made. That is just looking on it on a wider scale, considering the entire book.

Also the fact that Sam's family have been gardening for the Baggenses (Is that the right plural?) for a long time, and they are far richer than they are. Especially after Bilbo's adventure and subsequently treasure from smoug's horde. (If I remember correctly that was only two chests, one of silver, one of Gold, correct me if I am mistaken). Perhaps it is that Sam's Gaffer brought him up to respect his employers; think of them as higher people. If you look at the way the Gaffer is quoted to speak to Sam, we get the impression that he was brought up thinking himself to be on a lower intelligence level than Bilbo and Frodo.

This is as the Gaffer seems to have many sayings like "You ninny hammer" and (My favourite) "Every time you open your mouth you stick your foot in it."
So Perhaps it is the Gaffer's portrayal of Sam being a 'stupid boy' and the Baggins family as being a rich and therefore intelligent family that leaves him feeling a sort of lower being so to speak.

This upbringing would seem to explain why he defends Frodo so fiercely through out the book, even in the green dragon inn at Bywater when Sandyman and the others badmouth him, Sam defends Frodo, and so to does the Gaffer. Perhaps it is the way of the shire to see richer people (Or hobbits) as higher authorities. So I would put Sam's use of the word 'sir' down to his upbringing and courtesy.

[Silmiel of Imladris]

Some very excellent points Hookbill. I also think Bilbo and Frodo are treated as such (especially Bilbo) is because not only do they have treasure but they are living legends. The tasks that Biblo did with the drawves have probably been so blow out of proportion by now that he is kind of reverd as a local (for lack of a better word) deity.

Since we are talking about hobbits in this chapter I realized that Pippin wasn't nearly as...stupid as the movie made him out to be. He actually has some intelligence in the book. I think I like the book version of him better because he has more depth. The curiousity is still there but there is also a brain.

[Bêthberry]

Aiwendil,

I agree and disagree.

Oh, I do also, which is why I included the slight disclaimer in my post about understanding how it characterises Sam.

But my point is not solely about the difference between a moral distaste for class distinctions and the need for characterisation.

The tag use of 'sir' strikes me so thoroughly as representing Victorian and Edwardian social practice. Of course, as we have already discussed, much of the description of The Shire derives from the Sarehole which Tolkien knew and loved and reflects a nostalgic tone for the Edwardian times.

However--and I am sure this however is going to get me into very hot water--that particular way of having Sam show deference to Frodo and Pip grates against my thoroughly personal and idiosyncratice sense of class roles in medieval literature and in the earlier mythologies. Likely this is not fair of me, but it jars. It seems to me that Tolkin is using a "modern" form of social discrimination rather than an "archaic" form of social address. As I think Rimbaud posted once, the depiction of Sam and Frodo is only slightly above a parody of class issues. And I'm not sure why Tolkien chose to do this.

Pip's comment on being woken by Frodo is, I think, meant as a bit of light-hearted banter between the boys, almost like a boys' camp-out. I'm sure it is Pip making a joke about roughing it in the bush. And I can imagine Sam's reply is in keeping with the joke--"No, sir, I haven't, sir"-- but then the night before Sam somewhat seriously uses "sir' to speak to Frodo.

So, it's just me not being sure if there is a mug's game going on or not. It is certainly one that Frodo does not play, as he quickly puts Pip's demands for water back to Pip. It is simply a point where I feel a slight jarring between what davem has suggested is the movement from 'realism' to 'myth'. Maybe it is just that Tolkien couldn't resist the urge to add some humour and I ought simply to accept it as such. I know some other Brits who are like that. (Looks over at Squatter and the Travestometre.)

Edit: Oh dear, cross posting with everyone after Aiwendil, it seems. sorry for not addressing other points, particularly Hookbill's. Must dash now.

[The Saucepan Man]

I don't quite follow your point, Bb. Sam is cast in the role of servant, a Hobbit of lower "social standing" than Frodo and Pippin. That being the situation, does it not make perfect sense, within the context of Tolkien's portrayal of Shire society, that he should address them as "sir"?

Until relatively recent times (within my lifetime even), in England at least, it was quite common for public servants, shopkeepers and the like to address members of the public and their customers as "sir". Policeman still do (although more often than not with a hint of sarcasm ).

[Hookbill the Goomba]

A quick question to any who can answer.
Whilst reading this chapter, it occurred to me that Frodo is never said to actually have a job of any sorts. Nether is Bilbo (Aside form perhaps Author), so in that way is Sam a little higher? You'll say no as Frodo is too important to work anyway. The only Job I remember Frodo ever having (Aside form Ring bearer) was deputy mayor of Hobbiton, and that was right at the end. Was Frodo just an aristocrat? This is a silly question, but one that has been growing on my mind.

Can anyone help?