Tolkien and philosophy

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Firstly, mark12_30 and The Saucepan Man, when I said;

Tolkien was not a philosopher, that is plain enough

The "Plain enough" statement was a reference to Gimli, as he says it often... But that’s not important,
He was not a philosopher by profession but that wouldn’t have stopped him philosophising.

Please stop finding answers to those questions (I.e. "When a tree falls and there is no Ent to hear it... and... what is the sound of one elven had Clapping) They were random extreme examples, I didn't expect any answers, but still the image of an Ent falling over and shouting "Who put that stone there" is amusing, so that make up for it...


Fordim Hedgethistle, Frodo was not originally called Frodo. If I remember correctly from reading Tolkien’s biography, he was called "Bungo" or something (Please correct me if I’m wrong) I have seen many forums where names of characters have been deeply looked into, the only explanation I can give is that Tolkien’s languages are based on existing ones... so it is not surprising that there are hidden meanings...

Back to the point... (Ignore all that earlier stuff)

The comment about Tolkien not really caring about how well received his book was, that is well supported in the forwards and letters, so there is no trouble there. The reference to those who (As was said, for their own enjoyment) look deeply into these matters and that not bothering Tolkien is perhaps a sigh that with creating any imaginary world Philosophical subjects will arise. C.S. Louise’s Books involved an imaginary world and I'm sure there are forums with people discussing similar things. Tolkien was perhaps not intentionally putting these things there, they just sort of came along with it. Probably hiding in a small box so he didn’t notice it.
So when he was being flooded with mail and getting phone calls from America at 5:00 in the morning he was perhaps a little astonished to see how deeply people looked at his tales.

[mark12_30]

Hi Hookbill,

You wrote,

The reference to those who (As was said, for their own enjoyment) look deeply into these matters and that not bothering Tolkien is perhaps a sigh that with creating any imaginary world Philosophical subjects will arise.

Yes, it's true that "with creating any imaginary world Philosophical subjects will arise". I think careful consideration of TOlkien wll reveal that the two ideas were interwove,n. He did treat philosophical ideas rather carefully in his Epic Romance LotR, just as he treated them carefully in his Mythology For England (the Sil.) Do you have a copy of Letters? He discusses his ideas frequently in Letters, and it is very interesting reading. That is why I asked "On what do you base your conclusion" that Tolkien was not a philosopher; I find his letters very philosophical indeed.

C.S. Lewis’s Books involved an imaginary world and I'm sure there are forums with people discussing similar things. Tolkien was perhaps not intentionally putting these things there, they just sort of came along with it. Probably hiding in a small box so he didn’t notice it.

Except that when you read some of his own statements, you find such things as "It's about death, the inevitability of death". I do think he was writing a great story, of course. But with a deep thinker in the process of writing a great story, deep themes do bubble to the surface-- precisedly because the man is a deep thinker.

He wrote essays describing his philosophy towards Faery stories and towards Beowulf, and other things as well. If you are not familiar with them, perhaps you would like to check them out.

I think you've raised a question that puzzles a lot of people, because on the one hand Tolkien often did say that Lord of the Rings was "just a story". However, he also said that the Silmarillion was a "myth"-- his attempt at writing a myth for England. And he believed that myths are all shadows of what he called The One True Myth. So there was a lot of deep thinking going on.

Keep asking questions, Hookbill! And don't let the dyslexia get you down; looks like I don't need to tell you that! I like your spunk.

--mark12_30