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Old 06-06-2002, 01:26 PM   #28
Lostgaeriel
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Toronto the Good
Posts: 477
Lostgaeriel has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Ah, yes, the prophecy. I was wondering when that would figure in the discussion.

Quote:
Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!
Quote:
But our trial of strength is not yet come. And if words spoken of old be true, not by the hand of man shall he fall, and hidden from the Wise is the doom that awaits him.
I think it is ambiguous in these passages as to whether 'man' means one of male gender or human (as opposed to Elf, Hobbit, Dwarf). [Similar to reasoning that Neil Armstrong flubbed his line when he stepped on the moon. "That's one small step for (a) man, one giant leap for mankind."] My opinion has always been that Tolkien purposefully made the wording this way so that it would predict BOTH a Hobbit and a Woman as the Witchking's bane. The Black Captain was well aware of the prophecy and even if he had understood one interpretation (which he did not), he would never have guessed both. Either way the Witchking figures it will take someone MORE powerful than a man to destroy him - not a woman and a halfling. Hubris.

More about that 'man' definition. Recall Gandalf's discussion of Pippin's status with Ingold at the gate in the wall of the Pelennor in Minas Tirith. To the point, Pippin finally cries:
Quote:
Man! Indeed not! I am a hobbit and no more valiant than I am a man, save perhaps now and again by necessity.
Of course, it took both Éowyn AND Merry to destroy the Witchking and fulfill the prophecy.
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