Originality in fantasy Post-Tolkien

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Keeper, your definition of fantasy is narrower than Paris Hilton's waist (for all of you living under a rock, that's pretty durn narrow).

I'll admit, that it was a pretty narrow definition. I realise there's a lot more to fantasy. The reflection of yourself in varying extremes expressed and showcased in their sort of incarnate races seems to be a part (take dwarves, as an example of the greediness and selfishness people are capable of, although not as the absolute example of it, just an extreme form. The same can be true of orcs and their representation of hatred, etc...). Also, fantasy does seem to be in the mindset of discovering the ability in yourself to overcome something, whether mental or physical. And there's a lot more to it, clearly. While Tolkien didn't want to use it in any allegorical sense, fantasy can be used in that way very, very effectively (although the same can be said for more than just fantasy, naturally).

Anyway, it just seemed to me that (which ties in to another reply) it's the mythic races and creatures that are repeated over and again, but a lot of people have a lot of different things to express with those characters. (and when Tolkien's ideas and themes are re-used, that's when it's wicked, wicked noticeable).

Great idea, Keeper! Do it!

Already did, I wrote a 12 page (which is still unfinished) short story called "Beneath Every Cover" that got be some credit in high-school anyway, and got me into a writer's convention. That's nothing huge, but it goes with my suggestion; all the fantasy I write is to point out society's problems on a small scale. The entire setting of BEC was in a Prancing Pony-esque tavern (there were huge differences ... it was in the seedy side of a port town, and the whole of the patrons were crooked captains of the guard and thieves. My only elf was a bigot).

Anyway, it was a breath of fresh air for me to write it, and I plan on doing more.

Anyway, I have read some good fantasy that really put different spins on our tried and true elements and alluded to different themes. Weis and Hickman's "Death Gate Cycle" was good, it was about a warmonger named Haplo who thought he was a demigod coming to grips with the fact he was no better than a mere human or dwarf, or his mortal enemy and equally powerful rival, for those who haven't read it. I recommend it, since the world is split into different worlds in it, and each place he visits has completely different interpretations of elves, humans, dwarves and dragons ...

And who is the real enemy is the biggest surprise ...

That's my recommendation for those of you who want less cliched fantasy, because I think that's where the problem lies - the cliches.

[Lhundulinwen]

I agree with Keeper on that one- to make good fiction of any kind, take one characteristic and emulate it. And showing one of societies many problems is a great way to incorpoate a theme. Is "Death Gate Cycle" a novel? It sounds interesting.

Oh, and one more thing. This is just my pet peeve, and one of those things I get really close to being a motivational speaker about, so just bear with me on this one-
Just because you aren't published or have published very little, you ARE a writer, not an aspiring writer as long as you have written something just because you wanted to lately. (not counting high school english assignments- or college!)

[Osse]

I'd just have to say: yes, for many years it has frustrated me that i have found few fantasy writings that are not in some way... let's just say, to be pollitically correct, INSPIRED (cough cough) by Tolkien's works or ideas. Characters, plot schemes, races, etc. all seem to have been 'adapted'.


This is not to say that everyone steals ideas ... there are some fantastic fantasy works out there that are very disssimilar to the works of Tolkien... they are rare and hard to find. Those cheapy fantasy paperbacks for example are often just straight copies, yet many authors (MaCathery, Lustbader, Pratchett, etc etc) can still come up with vibrant original works.

It's sad, but hey! Tolkien's ideas are all so awesome, it's hard not to write with some of them, it's kind of what we expect fantasy to be nowadays.

[Kitanna]

Ok it's clear Tolkien didn't invent the fantasy genre. I mean that's been around since the days of ancient Greece. I think Tolkien just took it to a new level. Just reading some fanatasy books out there now you can tell that the author had to have read Tolkien or that's just an amazing coinidence. Not all fantasy authors do it, but many do it's hard to write a fantasy and not have someone compare it to LOTR. I don't think fantasy authors are "ripping off" Tolkien's work, but there are similarties. Hey, but that's just my opinion.

[Mahal]

Some authors, are ofcourse blantantly ripping off. There are always, people who do that for money. Some are trying to create, new worlds, and have things in common, and get blasted, for being the same. Well, I also like the Exalted fiction(Exalted being an Pen and paper Rpg), and it is also quite different from Tolkien. It has exotic things, from Asia, Egypt, Europe, and other cultures, and its a very good read, I recommend it.

[Lhundulinwen]

I agree Mahal, exotic mythology (not Greek, Norse, Roman, etc.) makes a story so much more fresh. Obsidian Butterfly of the Anita blake series is a lot better than most of the other books in the series because it uses Southwestern myths and Inca traditions in the climax.
Does anyone have a favorite book or collection of these types of myths? I was looking for Australian and Asian (esp. Polynesian) myths and legends at the library, and they only had the familar myths. Any suggestions?

[Lobelia]

Originally Posted by Lhundulinwen

Just because you aren't published or have published very little, you ARE a writer, not an aspiring writer as long as you have written something just because you wanted to lately. (not counting high school english assignments- or college!)

Well said! If you write, you're a writer. And make sure you submit because, as someone once said, even rejection slips prove you're a writer. Only writers get them. And don't worry you may be "ripping off" Tolkien. For one thing, every new writer is inspired by *someone*. You develop your own style as you go. For another, let's face it, Tolkien created many things have become standard, even cliched in fantasy fiction, so how can you help it? Mind you, I still recommend Diana Wynne Jones' TOUGH GUIDE TO FANTASYLAND, which has fun with those cliches and can help you avoid being (negatively) compared with JRR.

[Essex]

OK, one writer who I don't think has taken too much from Tolkien's world but has created (in my opinion) the second best fantasy story is Stephen King, and his Dark Tower series.

OK, so he admits himself he is influenced by Tolkien, but in the DT collection of books I cannot see too many references (if any) to Middle-earth.

Ok, so perhaps one! You could compare the rainbow stones to the Palantiri, but even THIS is a loose connection to me. The rainbow stones are far much MORE than the seeing stones in LOTR.

To me, the Dark Tower series of books is the 2nd best thing I have read to LOTR. And to me, Roland of Gilead is one of the best written characters I have ever read.

Another trilogy I haven't heard mentioned here, and I'm surprised about is Pullman's His Dark Materials. But I'm glad people don't see this work as original as I don't believe it is myself. It could be that Pullman himself has dissed LOTR (ie he's used the good old 'no characterisation' cliche about Tolkien), but I see many throwbacks to Tolkien's plot in Pullman's trilogy. For example, two main characters 'sacrifice' themselves in a position not unfamilliar with the cracks of doom and the last scene in the last book is very Grey Havens-like. (PS regarding Pullman's point on the lack of characterisation in lotr, the only character to me that stands out in his trilogy is Iorek Byrnison).