Tom Bombadil

[Potatothan]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Perky Ent:

As I remember, Tom has been walking ME long before the Istari came, before the birth of men and before the sun and moon... I think he's something else, something created from nature itself. I agree with Gil-Galad that he must be more powerful than a maia, maybe even than valar.

No, Tom was not more powerfull than a Valar, I don't know for sure if he is stronger than a Maiar either. For Gandalf himself was bound by law and could not use his full strength. In the book, during the counsil of Elrond, they think of giving the ring to Bombadil. Gandalf rejects this for not even Bombadil could withhold the storm that Sauron would unleash on him. So even though he is not affected by the ring, does not mean he is stronger than a Maia or Valar. For a Valar could easely defeat Sauron, even with his ring.

What Tom is beats me, perhaps just like the ents, something completely different. Not listed, but known all over. But if you consider that gandalf foresees, that he will be the last to fall, like he was the first, he must have great power. Like tom says himself, he is the master. And that is all. He is just a wonderfull creature (so to speak) that has nothing to do with no one. Another question, his wife. How great was the power she posessed?

~Potatothan

[Gothmog]

What Tom is beats me, perhaps just like the ents, something completely different. Not listed, but known all over.

Well, maybe but the ents were created by valar (on Yavannas request if remember correctly) and Tom was "the first and last" (right?). I've always presumed that he existed before ME was created...

[Potatothan]

He doesn't nescesarely have to be there before the Valar. He was the first in Middle-Earth yes, but didn't the valar first dwell in Valinor, maybe he got there right afther the Valar, or at the same time.

~Potatothan

[Gothmog]

True, Potatothan. There is no answer to the question "who was Tom Bombadil".
I don't think JRRT himself knew exactly who or what he was, he's an enigma as Bombadil says...

Everybody have to decide what THEY believe, there is no correct or wrong answer. I still think that he existed before ME was created. if he was mightier than valar or not is unimportant, he was happy with his life and didn't try to rule ME, or prevent those who wanted to. I think thats why he wasn't influenced by the ring's power, he didn't want more power. Even if Galadriel and Gandalf were "good " there was a certain longing for power in their heart. I think Tom was far beyond that.

That's MY opinion...

[Isowen]

I never really thought about it but I always just thought he was some kind of spirit, whatever he is, the people of the forum seem to enjoy talking about him!

[Morsul the Dark]

let us return for a moment to the the good ol' days of creation a good friend Yavanna created ents (by my understanding) by putting spirits into trees to protect them from the dwarves... what if one of these spirits as apposed to becoming treeish became more active especially when seeing a certain miss goldberry He may have originally been an ent spirit that escaped his tree(who became souless and evil (our Mr. Old Man Willow))

[Encaitare]

Interesting theory, Morsul! I also like the idea that Tom Bombadil is Eru, but I don't necessarily believe it. Still, the thought of this great sage god hopping around a forest going "ring a dong dillo!" all the time is quite amusing

But Tom has the life, though. He gets to run around the woods and gather water-lillies for his "pretty lady" and sing random syllables and save hobbitses from nassty demises. Seems like a pretty good existence to me.

[Boromir88]

Let it be known also since Bombadil is one of the unanswered questions Tolkien left for us, we can never know truly what Bombadil is. Only speculation, but through other writings we can limit some of the choices.

Choices could be....
Eru
Maia
Valar
Tolkien writing himself into the story
An Enigma

We can automatically eliminate Valar, since all the Valar are accounted for. Also, we can eliminate Eru. Since it was stated Eru never set foot upon Arda. Also, Eru is like the god representative in Tolkien's stories. According to Glorfindel, Bombadil could be beaten, and of course we have to assume no one is more powerful then god.

The Council of Elrond
"But in any case" said Glorfindel, "to send the ring to him would only postpone the day of evil. He is far away. We could not now take it back to him, unguessed, unmarked by any spy. And even if we could, soon or late the Lord of the Rings would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it. Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Las as he was First; and then Night will come."

Obviously, we will never know what will happen if that day Glorfindel spoke of was to come. If Bombadil was the last standing on Middle-earth. If he truly would have fallen to Sauron. However, in my personal opinion, Glorfindel is a person who in death gained much wisdom, and is one of the more powerful elves still left during this time, I believe we can trust his word. I think the fact that it was said Eru never steppef foot on Arda we can say Bombadil wasn't Eru.

Anything beyond this point, to me, is speculation. Was he a Maia? Possibly, after all, not all Maia were named or are accounted for. Could he be Tolkien himself? Maybe. I do think Bombadil actually was Tolkien writing himself into the story. Look to see what we got, Bombadil is the only person, that we are aware of, that the ring has no effect on. Would a Maia be able to do such a thing? Could a Maia have no care for the "one ring?" In my opion, no. If we take a look at Goldberry's words...

In The House of Tom Bombadil
"Fair lady!" said Frodo again after a while. "Tell me, if my asking does not seem foolish, who is Tom Bombadil."
"He is," said Goldberry...

I've been searching, but I can't find the exact quote, however I do know Goldberry refers to Tom as "He just is," and "Master."

Since, I've established its not Eru, "master" and "he just is" makes me refer to the "master of the story," the "creator" of Lord of the Rings, and is therefor Tolkien writing himself into the story. Talked about in the "Old Forest discussion" in the "Chapter-by-Chapter" threads, it appears the whole "Old Forest" is itself "magical" something totally different from the "magic" of the elves or the "magic" from the rest of Middle-Earth. It's just a mysterious, magical place. Tom Bombadil isn't that important of a character, sure he helps Frodo and the others out of some sticky situations, but the ring has no effect on him. He is the only person, that we know of, who wasn't "tempted" by the ring. Again which is why I think it is Tolkien. However, as I've stated Bombadil is an unanswerable question, we can only come up with conjectures, and conjectures are not facts. This is my opinion.