Unnumbered Tears - what if?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

[Mandos(?): ]To evil end shall all things turn that [the House of Fëanor] begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and fear of treason, shall this come to pass.

(The Silmarillion 9)

...and [Maedhros, son of Fëanor] began those counsels [i.e., unite again, and make new league and common council] for the raising of the fortunes of the Eldar that are called the Union of Maedhros.

(The Silmarillion 20)

See? The battle was doomed from the beginning.

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

And taking that one step further, they had to lose by logic, too. Since "to evil end shall all things turn that [the House of Fëanor] begin well....", they must ultimately have been defeated. Seeing as they won the second and third battles, it stands to reason that they must then lose the fourth and fifth battles, as they did. It seems to me that if they had paid the Doom of Mandos any heed at all, they should have expected this. But whether or not they had seen it coming, chances are they would have been defeated anyway. Would they have been routed as thoroughly as they were, though, is the question. I think they would have; doom in effect an' all that, but perhaps not. Yet going into the Ninaeth Arnoediad expecting a loss would have severely decreased morale and even further lowered the chances of victory so...... they were doomed, as Elenrod said. Every way you look at it, they were doomed.

[Finwe]

Poor Noldor.

Also, the line "they might have won had all their hosts proved faithful" doesn't concretely say that they would have won. It just says that they might have won. Even if the Easterling men had proved faithful, Morgoth was still infinitely more resourceful and powerful than the forces of the Elves. There were plenty of ways he could still defeat them.

[symestreem]

Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men.

How did the Doom of Mandos cause the treachery of the Eastlings? The 'hosts' that were not true were not those of the Eldar, but those of the Men.

[doug*platypus]

I think the treachery that occured could still be loosely considered as "kin unto kin". The faithful sons of Bór were distantly akin to the sons of Ulfang, because they were all Swarthy Men. In Chapter 20, The Silmarillion says that:

Great was the triumph of Morgoth, and his design was accomplished in a manner after his own heart; for Men took the lives of Men...

Anyone who joined with or came into contact with the exiled Noldor (Teleri, Edain and presumably also Swarthy Men) joined the ranks of the cursed. Thingol brought his own doom on him when he spoke of his desire for a Silmaril, and of the Edain it was said:

All these were caught in the net of the Doom of the Noldor...

I think that Nilpaurion Felagund is right; the treachery that took away all hope of victory in the Nirnaeth was a result of the Curse of Mandos.

[davem]

Let's look at this from the Noldor's point of view for a moment:

As for the 'Doom of Mandos' - do the Noldor really believe it? They saw the Valar brought to apparent ruin, in their own land, saw Morgoth kill the Trees under their noses. I wonder if they didn't have some sense that lots of things were possible - even if the Valar said they weren't. Perhaps we're dealing with a people who had faced what seemed the ultimate disaster, set off on their own on what appeared a suicide mission - taking back the Silmarils from Morgoth - & seemed, against all odds to be on the road to winning.

You can almost imagine them thinking: Maybe the Valar don't know everything. Isn't it worth the risk? And the Valar had left them (& the Sindar, men & dwarves, who had not offended) to their fate. Morgoth is a threat to their very existence - what were they supposed to do? Stand back & do nothing & let him wipe them out piecemeal? They either have to fight, hit him as hard as they can & attempt to defeat him, or wait till he destroys them. They can't go back. They have nowhere to run. We have the clash of the two contending themes of the Music being made mainifest - conflict in the world is inevitable because its a conflict which began before the world. This a battle between forces attepting to actualise the different themes - Morgoth's forces are continuing to 'sing' the themes he introduced in eternity. The Elves - for all their 'sin' are still attempting to 'sing' the theme Eru propounded to the Ainur by Eru before the 'Ea!' was spoken & Arda came into being.

So,(as Tolkien stated) the Valar were at fault in holding back & barricading Valinor. The themes will contend throughout history till the Great End. The Noldor have committed a terrible offence in the Kinslaying, but the Valar have shirked their obligation. They contended with Melkor in the Anulindale, but they have refused to continue that contention within the world. The Noldor should not have been deserted by the Valar, who behave like offended children instead of the Holy Ones given stewardship of Arda by Eru that they are. Why should they have to crawl back to the Valar & beg them to help. When they do try & get back to ask the Valar just refuse to listen. The Valar have ultimate responsibility for dealing with Morgoth, but are hiding behind the Pelori, being self righteous, while the Noldor, the Sindar, Men & Dwarves are shedding their blood & losing their lives, doing their job for them.

Of course, this is not the whole story - the Valar do intervene, they don't leave the people of Middle Earth to their fate, but from the perspective of the Noldor in ME it could easily seem that way. The Valar have good reason to be wary of direct confrontation with Morgoth, they don't know how devastating the consequences of all out war between them & Morgoth will be on Beleriand, or Middle Earth as a whole.

But war is inevitable, because the Music set out this eternal & temporal contention, so this battle is inevitable, & they would have had to fight it sooner or later, even if they knew defeat was unavoidable. Whatever the Noldor did, out of pride, fear loss, desire, anger, however much they can be said to have brought their fate on themselves, the Valar (again as Tolkien said) are not wholly in the right, because in the end dealing with Morgoth is their responsibility, not the Noldor's (or anyone else's), & they shouldn't have to be begged to do it.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I agree with your point about Nirnaeth being inevitable. But your point about the Valar being at fault...well...

...and a new theme began amid the storm, like and yet unlike to the former them, and it gathered power and had new beauty. But the discord of Melkor rose in uproar and contended with it, and again there was a war of sound [there being a battle of music between the Ainur and Melkor's theme before] more violent than before, until many of the Ainur were dismayed and sang no longer, and Melkor had the mastery.

(The Silmarillion, Ainulindalë - emphasis mine)

The Ainur were also actualising their role in the conflict against Melkor - most of them sat it out, except, as examples, Melian and Ulmo. For a time, as the Eldar gained power and beauty in Arda, Morgoth's hatred will be poured out on them, and, for a while, they will be overpowered. The Valar not participating in that fight was pre-ordained by the Music, so any blame could be excused as them only doing what they could do, bound to the Music as they are.