Sauron, devoted servant of Melkor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 03-19-2004, 03:27 AM

But Numenor was destroyed because of the behaviour of the Numenoreans, not the behaviour of Sauron. To destroy the whole of the West of ME because of Sauron would perhaps have been a little unreasonable. One tends to lose respect for a deity that goes around destroying millions of people just to get rid of his enemies!

Having said that, Illuvatar had proven that he was willing to use the 'ultimate deterent', so Sauron probably knew that if he did manage to corrupt or totally dominate Me Illuvatar probably would have intervened to stop him. Which brings up the question we've just been playing around with in the Doom of Doriath thread - if only Men are not bound by the Music of the Ainur, which is as fate to all things else (which presumably includes Maiar within Arda) how much freedom of action did Sauron have? Is it that Illuvatar has to intervene, as with Numenor, when a course of action requires a change to be made which is outside the Music, a change which even the Valar cannot make, being bound by the Music themselves?

But that would mean that in terms of freedom of action, Men are freer than the Valar, & so, in a sense, more powerful, but .....

(Sorry, but that needs thinking about!)

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03-19-2004, 03:27 AM	#12
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	But Numenor was destroyed because of the behaviour of the Numenoreans, not the behaviour of Sauron. To destroy the whole of the West of ME because of Sauron would perhaps have been a little unreasonable. One tends to lose respect for a deity that goes around destroying millions of people just to get rid of his enemies! Having said that, Illuvatar had proven that he was willing to use the 'ultimate deterent', so Sauron probably knew that if he did manage to corrupt or totally dominate Me Illuvatar probably would have intervened to stop him. Which brings up the question we've just been playing around with in the Doom of Doriath thread - if only Men are not bound by the Music of the Ainur, which is as fate to all things else (which presumably includes Maiar within Arda) how much freedom of action did Sauron have? Is it that Illuvatar has to intervene, as with Numenor, when a course of action requires a change to be made which is outside the Music, a change which even the Valar cannot make, being bound by the Music themselves? But that would mean that in terms of freedom of action, Men are freer than the Valar, & so, in a sense, more powerful, but ..... (Sorry, but that needs thinking about!)