Name Changes?

[Maédhros]

A further note to take of is this:
From the Shibboleth of Fëanor

The Sindarizing of these names as Fingon and Turgon shows knowledge of the sound-changes distinguishing Sindarin from Telerin, but disregards meaning. If these names had actually been ancient Sindarin names they would at the time of the coming of the Exiles have taken the forms Fingon and Turgon, but they would not have had their Quenya meanings, if interpretable at all. Possibly they would have conveyed 'Hair-shout' and 'Master-shout' [see note 36]. But this did not matter much since old Sindarin names had by that time frequently become obscured by sound-changes and were taken as names and not analysed.

This can be interpreted to mean that while Arothir is the correct sindarized name of [Orodreth], that does not mean that it was the one that was used, because as said in the previous quote, some of the old Sindarin names had been obscured by sound-changes and were taken as name and not analysed.
Plus the fact posted by Aiwendil that Orodreth the Steward of Gondor had that name because of [Orodreth] the King of Nargothrond.

[Aiwendil]

Re-reading this thread I noticed something - in note 65 to the "Shibboleth", it is stated that in a note associated with the text, the Sindarization of "Ambarussa" is given as "Amros" rather than "Amras".

Does this mean that we should be implementing a general change Amras > Amros? Or is there a later instance of "Amras" that nullifies the change?

[aravanessë]

I think Amros to be better: it appears in The Shibboleth (c. 1968) whereas the LQ2 (where Amras is attested) is dated from about 1958 (Compare also with rhosc ‘brown’ in the Etymologies).

aravanessë

[Aiwendil]

Welcome to the project, aravanesse!

I think you are right - in any case, the Shibboleth is certainly later than LQ2. Unless we can find another instance of the name 'Amras' in the late writings, I think we will have to implement a change to 'Amros'.

[aravanessë]

Thank you.

Amros is also attested in a text dated from 1968 or later (in any cases, after the Shibboleth of Fëqnor), cf. The Problem of ROS.
I have not found another references of Amras in HoMe X, XI and XII that don't belong to LQ2 or to a later text.
(Moreover, what do you think about the 'five sons of Fëanor' mentioned in HoMe XI p. 329 ?)

aravanessë

[Findegil]

A warm welcome to the project aravanessë from my side as well.

Concerning Amros: A good catch by you, Aiwendil. I could alos not find any later reference to Amras, so I will take up the general change: {Díriel}[Amros] and {Amras}[Amros].

About the 5 sons of Fëanor: This is one of the hard puzzels. My take at it would be that he meant the five cheifs of realms in exil which were:
Marches of Maeðros
Maelors Gap
Himlad and the Pass of Aglon -> Celegorm
Dor Caranthir
Plian of East Beleriand -> Amros

We see Curufin only together with his older brother Celegorm, so he might be missing from thelist of rulers.

On the other hand Amros could be missing because I Ever have the feeling that East Beleriand was not realy a realm. But nor a hunting ground for the youngest of Fëanors sons.

Respectfully
Findegil

[aravanessë]

About the 5 sons of Fëanor: This is one of the hard puzzels. My take at it would be that he meant the five cheifs of realms in exil which were:
Marches of Maeðros
Maelors Gap
Himlad and the Pass of Aglon -> Celegorm
Dor Caranthir
Plian of East Beleriand -> Amros

We see Curufin only together with his older brother Celegorm, so he might be missing from thelist of rulers.

Yea, it is not stupid, all the more so in the text Curufin seems to take the main part and seems to contrast to his brother. Merci beaucoup.

aravanessë