Elven genetics

[symestreem]

Elvinghood suggests ents to me. But they are close, in that they are both peaceful and in tune with the natural world.

[Legolas]

No matter which doom Arwen chose, biologically, she was an elf.

As stated above, biologically she was *not* an elf. She was in no way an elf really, other than having a similar course of aging until she was forced to decide. The original decree was that any being with any amount of blood was mortal. A decision to be immortal would've been the departure from how things had "naturally" occurred before - not a decision to be mortal.

[symestreem]

So the question is, would Arwen have died even if she accompanied Elrond to Valinor? That seems the only logical outcome of Legolas's argument. Otherwise, it must be argued that Arwen had no mortal blood in her, or that Elrond's decision to be an elf negated this mortal blood.
When we say 'mortal', are we talking biologically or doomically?

On the subject of elven genetics:
Elves and humans can produce fertile children, so that means that they must have the same number of chromosomes. I'm not a genetics expert, but that seems to indicate that elves and humans are biologically closely related, and that elves merely have more favorable expressed traits than humans. However, since they always express these favorable traits, and never recessive ones, this indicates that someone (Eru) made it this way on purpose.

[Legolas]

The proposition that she would die in Valinor does not apply - if she chose immortality, Eru himself would've changed her fundamental kind. That is exactly the point.

[Elianna]

Legolas: Oooooooookay, after several minutes I think I finally understand what you're saying. Thanks.

[Voralphion]

I don't think that using modern genetic theory to try and describe elves is really that productive, as Tolkien was not a genetic expert and didn't try to introduce genetics into his work. In one of his letters he said that the reason that elves and men were able to breed was because they were in effect the same species but just had different fates and gifts, but that was as far as he went.
Also if modern genetics were involved in Middle Earth, they would be more complex than simple Mendelian inheritance which many people are using to try and describe the traits of characters.

[symestreem]

Originally Posted by Legolas

The proposition that she would die in Valinor does not apply - if she chose immortality, Eru himself would've changed her fundamental kind. That is exactly the point.

But what was her fundamental kind? Was she biologically elven or was she biologically 23/32 elven? In the Appendices, she is listed as an Eldar.

[Legolas]

Mortal.

The original decree was that any being with any amount of blood was mortal. A decision to be immortal would've been the departure from how things had "naturally" occurred before - not a decision to be mortal.

Tolkien:

Arwen was not an elf, but one of the half-elven who abandoned her elvish rights.

[Lhundulinwen]

Wow! This has gotten deep fast! Good job, y'all.

In defense of the southern part of the U.S., young'uns is our brand of poetic speaking. Maybe ME elves would say something more ME eloquent, but I'd be just fine with Elrond saying, 'Get up here, young'un! We gota boat to catch!' (or something similar) . But maybe that's just my southern fried version.

On the genetic end, my mom has blue eyes and my dad dark brown. I have a hazel color, but depending on my future husband's genetics I could easily have blue eyed or brown eyed children. My brother has the same color as my dad's. So, I would think hair would go the same way. Arwen's children probably had different shades of hair color, but basically the same color family. But, in ME, regular genetics wouldn't apply, as has already been said. But for the sake of arguement, that's my take on it.