What happened to the avari?

[lindil]

Re: Dorwinion, I had always assumed it was Elves from the Hobbit and later from the HoME3.

Upon looking for the exact reference in the Hobbit, I found this:

...for the Wood-Elves, and especially their king, were very fond of wine, though no vines grew in those parts. The wine and other goods were brought from far away, from their kinsfolk in the South, or from the vinyards of Men in distant lands.

So the particular wine in question could have come either from Men in Dorwinion or their Elven kin in the south, however the references in the HoME3 come from a time when I find it less likley that men would have in a mere 3-400 years cultivated feilds and engaged in Wine trading, I think it is more likely that the feilds were started by Elves and at somepoint [perhaps the incursions of the wainriders] abandoned by the Elves and taken over by Men.

Or by the time of the Hobbit, both Elves and Men in the same region were both trading with Erebor and Thranduil's realm.

The interesting point in the Hobbit, is that the 'Kinsfolk in the South',cannot refer to Lorien for 2 reasons. Celeborn and Legolas both refer to a[n extremely mysterious] communication/travel blackout between the realms.

Also The River Running does not connect with the Anduin at all, and flows to Dorwinion[located at the NW of the Sea of Rhun according to the P. Baynes map] and inot the Sea of Rhun itself.

Amazing what things one can dig up in The Hobbit.

[ January 26, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]