LOTR vs Harry Potter

[InklingElf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>*wonders why people keep on reviving this thread*<BR>Seriously, why? All you do is repeat the same old stuff!<P>Let's leave this thread in the bin.<P>Varda<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep. This topic has been answered by many other threads and forums other than the BD. <P>It is plain and simple. HP books <B>aren't</B> mythopetic like Tolkien's books are. They are set in the 21st century world, and they <B>don't</B> have references of Pagan magick like Rowling's does.<P>If you would like me to expound on this topic more, tell me. I would be glad to do so.<P>BTW:I even forgot this thread existed until I checked my mail just now. Heh- Oh well.

[Cibbwin]

I can't belive I'm still arguing in this thread, but I'm known for my opinionated way of thinking. So, here we go:<P>I've seen alot of posts from someone (not naming any names) about some of us being afraid of Christianity, or whatever that was about. All I can say is, why can't you be happy knowing you'll go to your paradise after death and we will be happy just turning into grass? I mean, I don't want to say this, but why can't so many Christains get the fact that they're will ALWAYS be other religions? Why can't you co-exist with them? Why must you try to convert us?<P>And on the Harry Potter/Bible thing: In NO WAY does Harry Potter teach anything about religion. Like I've said before, the only reference to ANY religion is in book 3, when the kids are studying demons known as Red Caps: The only way to defeat them is to recite a verse from the bible. The books don't teach anything about occult or anything like that. YES, the spells, ingredients and creatures come from mythology and religions, but they come from a million sources! Druidic wands, Persian clairvoyance, in NO way does it teach kids to follow a religion! The bible does.<P>Okay, I'm shutting up, this thread IS getting ridiculous. I just need to say what I need to say. And I'll also say that Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are two 100% different works of art. Harry Potter is more for kids to relate to. Lord of the Rings is a classic romantic fantasy, and BOTH will have a place in my heart. And I'd also like to say that in no way do I hate Christianity just because I'm pagan. Wiccans teach acceptance of every religion.

[Cibbwin]

I'm sorry, but I'm just getting mad, one more thing I need to say. Pagan magick is in no way evil or an abomination. It's because people have this vision of pagans worshipping the classic devil, or sacrificing babies and cats. I'd like to say that I practice reverence to the Earth, because it's the only thing we've got left, and I don't even BELIVE in the devil. We do our rituals in peace, in nature, we have no want to kill your pets or kids. If you want more input, just email me.

[Firondoiel]

I just read this thread and I want to respnd to some stuff. I'm letting you know right now that I'm a Christian and don't approve of HP. There have been issues raised about Sauron's magic in LOTR. Tolkien clearly points out that that power is wrong and evil.(and by the way Sauron's power is not withcraft. As you know he's a Maia which is a heavenly being and he always had those powers but he chose to use them for evil.) Gandalf, Galadriel, and others recoil from using the dark power even though it would give them the power to rule Middle Earth while Tolkien shows the consequences of Boromir and Saruman who give in to the lust for that power. While HP has kids going to school to learn withcraft. An evil power the come from the devil. It has several examples of the Occult and some of you have argued that the books have shown them to be wrong, but why expose yourself or your child to it???<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As for Harry Potter in school, If it gets the kids to read what is the big problem? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe because there have been several kids that have started to learn witchcraft or at least take an interest in it. The follow is a quote from a girl about the HP books.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"I was eager to get to Hogwarts first because I like what they learned there and <B>I want to be a witch.</B>Gioia Bishop, age 10. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>To all you Christians who read HP In Leviticus 19:26 we are instructed, “Do not practice divination or sorcery.” There are several warnings in the scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, making it clear that we are to avoid witchcraft. So if God is instructing us to avoid occult practices, how can we justify using it to entertain ourselves?

i love harry potter before and after i have read LOTr .....PPL these are books if u dotn like them dont read them dont make sucha fuss ...if u think its against your religion (ex.chrtistians or w/e) DONT READ THEM!!!!!!!its really simple an about Rowling copying Tolkien thats B.S***!!!!!! there is nothin new under sun!!!!!!tolkien has gandalf in lotr did he copy merlin jsut b/c there both old have a white beard an are wizards????NOOOO if you dont have any reasonable evidence that jk rowling is copying JRRT STOPPPP makeing such a HUge deal about it if she did i think she would be in court right now !!!!!! HP is just not for lil kids just b/c its main character is one it attracts readers from ends of the spectrum..in my opinion Harry is braver then frodo. I love BOTH HArry potter AND LOTR equally....<BR>TO MAKE IT SHORT IF U DONT LIKE THE BOOK DONT READ IT !!Im just wastin my time writing b/c i have nothin else to do an to defend HP. If ya ever wanna talk about this somemore IM me-hpchic007

[InklingElf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Why can't you co-exist with them? Why must you try to convert us?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>:Ahem: Firstly, No. No one's trying to convert you. You can turn into grass if you would like but I don't think andyone's trying to convert you (at least I don't)...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>in NO way does it teach kids to follow a religion! The bible does.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Are you sure? You said yourself it had sources from "a million sources"-pagan magick and all the references you mentioned.<P>And I agree with you <B>Cibbwin</B>, this thread is getting riduculous, and likewise I don't really agree with Wiccans, but in respect I don't want to "hate-on-you" either.<BR>---------------------------------------------<P>I am a Christian and I just want to revert back to what <B>Firondoiel</B> just quoted from the Bible: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>To all you Christians who read HP In Leviticus 19:26 we are instructed, “Do not practice divination or sorcery.” There are several warnings in the scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, making it clear that we are to avoid witchcraft.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I strongly agree, but look-it says it applies to Christians, which reinforces what I just said: We are not trying to convert you.<BR>---------------------------------------------<BR>Please know my replies mean no offense to <B>anyone</B>. I respect you, and as a fellow human being, i <I>know</I> I can expect the same from you as well.

[Aerandir Carnesir]

Thanks InklingElf. I completely agree with you. Although the Bible does say that we should bring others to Christ, we are not trying to force anything down your throats. IT'S YOUR CHOICE! Speaking for all true Christians, it clearly states in the Bible that witchcraft IS a sin and that all it's practices and rituals are of Satan. But, lets stay on the subject. Harry Potter does slightly offend me, being a Christian myself and all, but that's because those kids just annoy me off the woo-ha. J.K. Rowling did take stuff from Tolkein,(living trees, giant spiders, and since that one guy from the HP movie died, Ian McKellan I guess is taking his place.) but what good fantasy writer since 1937 hasn't? I personally don't care if Rowling uses some ideas from Tolkien, just as long as she doesn't plagerise. I'm not going to read HP anyway, so why should it matter to me? Tolkein set the standards for all fantasy writing in the 20th and 21st centuries, and I'm sure he wouldn't care too much if writers used some of his ideas in their own ways.

[Goldberry]

I am not Christian, but I am not against Christianity or any religion. I have read the Harry Potter books, and I think they are good books. They are interesting and the writing is great. But if you don't want to read them, just don't read them. That's ok. You don't need to preach to people who do want to read them about why we shouldn't read them. This is a Lord of the Rings website, not a website about religion. Leave the religion out of it, please.

~~~~~~This is a Lord of the Rings website, not a website about religion. Leave the religion out of it, please.~~~~~~~ Goldberry i completely agree w/u. IM not Christian and i dont mean to offend any religion w/my other replies. But if u read any fantasy books they all question religion.but your not reading the book b/c of its religion you are reading it b/c it interests you. Witchcraft is against my religion too but that doesnot stop me from reading Harry Potter and for everyone out there wh oare discrimanating HP, read the book before u choose to not like it..---in other words lets leave religion out of books unless the books are bout religion.

[Iarwain]

Sorry everyone, but I'm just in a thread bombing kind of mood, and this thread is truly hopeless for several obvious reasons:<P>A. It attracts far too much attention, thus preventing a single, defined discussion to take place.<P>B. It is drawn far too near to the discussion of morality, an empassioned debate, but one far too "personal" for the rules of this forum. Criticisms are bound to be made, taken the wrong way, and then become the base of ultimately unfruitful arguments.<P>C. Everyone knows that the Harry Potter versus Lord of the Rings debate is unwinable because Harry Potter is far more childish and post-modern, and deals with a completely different set of ideals than Lord of the Rings, which is a WWI veteran/Oxford Don's attempts at creating a complete mythology for pre-eleventh century Britan. (very drawn out, I know)<P><BR>Waiting for Arguments,<BR>Iarwain<P>P.S. By no means should anyone take the above post as a criticism to the posters or the author of this topic, it was a worthy idea and has had a good deal of sucess.<p>[ February 22, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[InklingElf]

<B>Aerandir Carnesir</B>, you're welcome .<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A. It attracts far too much attention, thus preventing a single, defined discussion to take place.<P>B. It is drawn far too near to the discussion of morality, an empassioned debate, but one far too "personal" for the rules of this forum. Criticisms are bound to be made, taken the wrong way, and then become the base of ultimately unfruitful arguments.<P>C. Everyone knows that the Harry Potter versus Lord of the Rings debate is unwinable because Harry Potter is far more childish and post-modern, and deals with a completely different set of ideals than Lord of the Rings, which is a WWI veteran/Oxford Don's attempts at creating a complete mythology for pre-eleventh century Britan. (very drawn out, I know)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well said.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

It doesn't look like there is anything significantly Tolkien-related to be said on this thread anymore, and most of the posts are way off-topic. I'm closing it; should anyone have an important addition, please PM me so that I can consider reopening it for you. Thanks!