Magic vs. Power

[Iarwain]

Saucepan, your argument is pure logic, and for once I refuse to take the path that logic has provided, so here's a detour.

I'm not trying to argue for the sake of annoying you, and I know that every theory has holes in it, but we've already established that Gandalf could set things alight without necessarily learning any new magic, he set the trees on fire during another warg attack in FotR, and I believe we have also established that this is part of his innate power over his surroundings. You make a specific point, Saucepan, in saying that one or more of the Nine became sorcerers after recieving their rings. Does this not further prove my point: that mortals could not gain any considerable amount of power without a boost (aka a ring), and that sorcery by a mortal would be impossible if the mortal acted on his/her own.

A person who has an IQ of, say 46 is not likely to bring that number up to more than maybe 55, unless they get a Flowers for Algernon type brain surgery (the equivalent of a ring of power) that raises their IQ a drastic 50 points or more (depending on the person.

Now, I see the point you are trying to make through this idea: that the pre-wraith sorcerers must have had to learn their skills, as they were not yet well aquainted with the world of the unseen. But, couldn't you look at this as a simple stage of adjustment when the the Nine were realizing their new skills. And now I have just proven your point.

Power can be learned in Middle-Earth, it has to be learned in order to make the existence of the Rings of Power possible.

Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. Yet even so, as Ring-bearer and as one that has borne it on finger and seen that which is hidden, your sight is grown keener. You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise. You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine. And did you not see and recognize the ring upon my finger? Did you see my ring? ' she asked turning again to Sam.

It is imperitive, therefore, that we recognize the need for ringbearers to learn to use their power, for how else would the rings pose any threat at all to those around them?

Finally Enlightened,
Iarwain

[ March 24, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]