The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Announcements and Obituaries > Haudh-en-Ndengin
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2003, 10:03 AM   #1
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

I think a little quote from the Ainulindale might put things in a bit better perspective: "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."

This very Augustinian idea that the existence of evil makes good better is one of the most prominent themes in Tolkien's works (interestingly, it's opposite is also a major theme). The rebellion of the Noldor is a perfect example. In itself, the flight of the Noldor was evil, or at least morally incorrect. There can be no disputing this within the parameters of Tolkien's universe; we're told it's evil. I think part of the problem many people have in trying to analyze this is that they impose other moral systems, like their own, onto Arda. But within Arda, the kind of morality that says the Vanyar are morally 'better' than the Noldor (in general) is axiomatic.

So the rebellion of the Noldor was immoral. But, as many on this thread have pointed out, some good came of it. This should be no surprise - it's just what Iluvatar warned Melkor of. The most triumphant notes of Melkor's theme are woven into the theme of Iluvatar.

Edit: Another quote I just remembered along the same lines, but bearing more directly on the present discussion (the first speaker is Manwe):

Quote:
'So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus, even as Eru spoke to us, shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been.'
'And yet remain evil,' quoth Mandos.
[ March 04, 2003: Message edited by: Aiwendil ]
Aiwendil is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:25 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.