Lonely Star: Fanfiction/RPG discussion

[Birdland]

Hey girls, quit that. You know men. (Man looks at quilt with puzzlement, says,"Uh, yeah...that's nice.", then looks deperately around for the toy broadswords.)

[piosenniel]

'Cami is my boon companion on the Star. Whilst thou art new come. And I would fain school your tongue to courtesy.'

*taps Bethberry lightly under the chin with the flat of her blade and withdraws*

Courtesy! snorts Angara. What does the Elf know of courtesy?!

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Birdland]

Pio! Young lady - Er, I mean old lady...I mean immortal lady...reincarnated lady?...Anyway, you put that sword down right now! Some Elf is just begging for a "time out".

And Bethberry, you apologize to Pio and Mith. They are married now in the eyes of Eru, and the quilt is going to BOTH of them. (Though, of course, Pio will have to write the "thank you" note, and wash the quilt when it's dirty.)

[piosenniel]

Elves do not do the washing! Nor do they, for that matter, write 'thank-you notes' (It is thanks enough for an Elf to agree to receive a gift from any of the later born!) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

*smiles ingenuously at her old friend*

Aren't you coming to live with us? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
*******************************************

But SERIOUSLY, fellow writers. I have drawn a blank on names for my Numenorean guards. Can you make a few suggestions, please?!

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Bêthberry]

*aside* As if a simple ceremony can undo the desecration done to the quest by confusing epic and romance!

*to others* Ah, ever the peace-maker, eh, Bird. My throat does thank you. *whispers* I would be wary of new parents eager for other hands, if I were you. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

And I had thought 'twas but the emotionalism and irritability of the pregnant female. *wicked grin*

Must I after all acknowledge the father good? He has attended prenatal classes? Agreed to take the night time feeding, er, rather, the night time changing? Practices breathing techniques with Elf? Well, then, ahem, a model for his sex. *bows an apology and scampers off to look for Númenorian names*

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Once epic starts regaining the upper hand, I would be interested in participating here as well ... that is, if a place can be found for me here where I would be welcome. For truly, the Lonely Star adventure continues on its course of being a haven of top-notch writing and awesome cameraderie. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

At your Service, * bows *

Gandalf the Grey

[Birdland]

*whispers* I would be wary of new parents eager for other hands, if I were you...

Birdie whispers back: I'm way ahead of you there, B.B.

Yes, Pio. I'm still considering that generous offer. Let me sleep on it at the prison for a couple of more days, and I'll get right back to you two.

Geez, if that's how she treats company, I wonder what she does to her staff?

[piosenniel]

Epic?! Romance?! Too confining!

Who the heck ever called The Star either? It's a cracking good story, with enough thrown in to satisfy everyone - almost! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

I have a semi-serious issue to raise that I feel needs attention. Helen had mentioned that Cami might be adopting 5 children in the Third Age. At that point, the little hobbit began worrying: how was she to provide for 5 hungry hobbits? (We had originally discussed one adoptee, and Cami thought she'd eek out a living with the Fallohides doing laundry, caring for other's children, trapping some rabbits and catching a fish or two, etc.) Then Cami realized that there was a problem that went far beyond her personal welfare. How are the hobbits of the Third Age going to survive at all? The hobbrim will be in great shape, but I fear for the hobbits' future.

The hobbrim will be set off on an island where there will be no big people to harass them. It will be hidden from all evil. If Angara survives (which may or may not happen!), Ancalimon will nominate her as "Guardian of Meneltarma." She can protect the hobrim and give dragon back rides to all the children.

Also, there's a core group of 30 hobbrim who know exactly what they're doing because they have had experience living in this manner and organizing a community. The seashore is the best place I can think of for easy living--small fish, clams, seabirds and their eggs, seaweed delicacies, searooms,etc.

Now, contrast this with the miserable hobbits. They've all been in prison 60+ years. Their organizational and leadership skills will be minimal. Helen mentioned them working in the mines and as gravediggers, but those aren't good skills for survival unless you're a dwarf. They desperately need skills like hunting, fishing, agriculture, wood and river lore, herbal remedies etc. Would they even know how to light a campfire and cook a meal? I don't think the guards would have trusted them with fire. (Cami will not go if they only eat raw food!)

They certainly need weapons, and to be taught how to use them. They are surrounded by large hungry animals and big folk. The only hobbits who would have such weapons skills would be 75+ years old, and I bet they would have been the first sacrificed, since they weren't as good at physical labor.

According to Tolkien, the hobbits came in as three distinct clans, so they wouldn't even have the advantage of being united. If we go by this, the hobbits would be three groups running off in separate directions. By the way, are we going to drop off all the hobbits in one clump, or do we have separate drop offs for Harfoot, Fallohides, and Stoors? How did they get split up later, if one clump? Take a look at the hobbit migration map in Atlas of Middle-earth and you'll see what I'm referring to.

The loremaster and most of the elders will probably opt for hobbrim land since this is where the history and lore will be protected. Indeed, given this grim choice, any hobbit with a brain would vote to become hobbrim!

What can we do to improve the land hobbits' odds of survival? Possible Ideas:

1. Have some of the tomb hobbits work in agriculture, or fishing or hunting or even food preparation, so they have a pool of skills to draw on??? Is this feasible? Daisy might see and describe these activities briefly as she follows "her" guard around the cmpound and work fields?

2. Send someone with the hobbits who knows what they're doing? (Ancalimon? Woodland Elves?) Let them go in as one bunch. Assume they get "training" and then split up.

2. Cami unfortunately has few needed skills: cooking, the bow and arrow, fishing, simple clothmaking on a hand loom. (I REFUSE to wear animal skins!) Cami is frankly more of a drawback in this situation than an advantage. She does have a clear mind for making plans, but that's about it. Too bad I didn't make her a man with hunting, fighting, etc. skills.

This still doesn't answer the question of how Cami will survive on her own.

3. We have to give them weapons. They aren't going to the Garden of Eden. The Anduin is going to be rough. Where do the weapons come from? The Elves? Sending Mithadan and Ancalimon to Numenor coastline to buy up weapons?

4. Then there's the option where we don't worry about the believability. Just let the hobbits off, and assume they'll make it, since Tolkien tells us they did. (In this case, I fear Cami will have her application in for the "safe" job of the twins' nanny.)

Does any of this make sense, or am I being too fussy?

sharon

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Gandalf_theGrey]

piosenniel:

You say,

Epic?! Romance?! Too confining!
Who the heck ever called The Star either? It's a cracking good story, with enough thrown in to satisfy everyone - almost!

Your last sentence sums up my point exactly. Which is why I dearly hope to become involved and participate with all of you ... then there's the additional bonus that I'd get to know all of you better by sharing in the RPG experience, and I'd consider it an honor to be able to become friends with everyone here. ... If not in the RPG itself, then here in the discussion thread, where I'm observing from Bethberry that you can enjoy being a part of the "fellowship" in a quite rewarding way on this level. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] (Kudos to Bethberry for breaking new ground here and leading the way ... hope you don't mind me riding your coattails ... or cloaktails, as the case may be. * bows *)

Child of the 7th Age:

Being a major fan of the Survivor tv series, let me ponder your latest post and see if I can help you come up with some ideas. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Birdland:

Don't worry, you haven't been forgotten. I fully plan on still being an active contributor to the Gathering In, when everyone currently occupied with the Mentoring RPG "Audience with the King" is able to return to the Quest of the 24 Hobbits. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gandalf the Grey

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

[piosenniel]

One answer might be to not transport them off the island quite so soon. Can we not give them an extended period of training - we have the blesséd crystal, for Eru's sake!

They can be split into the differing groups according to the skills and preferences Cami or Ancalimon or whoever sees in them.

We've got 20 elven boats with at least 3 elves apiece on them - that should be enough teachers to go round don't you think?

Besides, if we stay a year - Cami and Rose and Daisy and all can say 'hi' to the twins!!!!

[Bêthberry]

Gandalf, so good to see you back! *Manages a decorous but hearty hug*

I must perhaps apologize for or at least explain my intrusions here. *coughs a little in recognition of the intrusions* Once a certain person *looks at Child* threatened to bludgeon me into reading this when posted on the fanfic site, I decided that, in the best interests of myself as reader (and potentially as proofreader also, who knows), why, I should become a pestering voice reminding all the great writers here that they have an obligation to please me as well as themselves. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] *knowing nod at Pio and Mith* (Ellipses are limited to three or four dots, Pio.) Remember, the purpose of art is to delight and to instruct. Tolkien would be in absolute agreement about that.

*runs off to read some old stories about a moose and a squirrel, who had their problems also with people of an elder age*

Bethberry

[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Bethberry:

* returns your hug *

You mean to tell me you were bludgeoned and ended up here? Lucky you! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gandalf the Grey

[piosenniel]

Bb . . . . . . you are indeed wicked!

The purpose of Art is to instruct, eh?! I think not! - at least on the level of Artist (and I'm speaking here solely for myself). Perhaps once removed from the creative experience itself it can be looked on it that way - a more academic and more static level. Should Tolkien agree or not with my assessment, I care not. It is simply how I view it.

*pulls her trusty Sig-Sauer and hits the 'dot' button repeatedly*

[Gandalf_theGrey]

As to where I stand on the purpose of art, I would say that it is to transcend.

[Birdland]

Of course, since we are giving the choice of Hobbits becoming hobbrim at the end, we could always give a choice of Hobbrims becoming Hobbits. (I don't know WHY they would want to become land-lubber Hobbits, but who knows?) Anyway, that would solve the problem of having leaders who would teach the others.

Frankly, I think you are giving "short shift" to the survival skills of the Hobbits. They're tough little cookies, and I bet they've learned quite a lot in the years of their imprisonment. (Ever see that movie "Empire of the Sun"?)

Another issue the three types of Hobbits. Are there three types in the prison, or just generic "Hobbits"? Tolkien suggests some definite physical differences in the three tribes. (Fallohides are prettier. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ) Did these difference develop after the fall of Gondolin, or were they always present? We've never addressed it in the story. Is Loremaster a Fallohide, Stoor, or Harfoot? What about the brothers? Do they stick to their own kind, or mingle freely? I don't think 75 years is a long enough time to wipe out the physical differences between the tribes.

Going back to the original question. There is a part of me that wouldn't mind just seeing the Halflings go off into the great unknown with a "God-Speed and Good Luck". We don't have to know how they made it, isn't it enough to know that they did make it?

[mark12_30]

Gandalf, good to see you here. Yes to Transcendance. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Hobbit survival:

I confess I like the idea of Wood Elves being available to assist them on the banks of the Anduin. My attitude may be purely selfish, though, because it dovetails nicely with What Happens Later (in The Fairy Wife) where the hobbits are mildly familiar with, and somewhat comfortable about the idea of, elves.

(Like I said, selfish. So shoot me.)

[Rose Cotton]

I say that if the hobbits could stand 60 years in the prisons they can get through living out in the open. And i like the idea of seeing the twins. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Bird --

More than you ever wanted to know about hobbits!! There were definitely three types in prison, and through the whole story.

In the First Age, Maura and Cami actually had discussions about the three type of hobbits. Each of the three was represented on the council by their own leaders. Maura told Cami there was little intermarriage beween them. Cami noticed there was more mingling in the camps than there had been before. She thought it would be better if the three groups merged, but Maura doubted that would occur anytime soon.

Cami is primarily a Harfoot, with some Fallohide blood which came though her mother's Brockhouse line. Maura was a Took and a Fallohide, so it is obviously in Cami's interest to support a mingling of the clans!

Remember too that when the Elves came for the first rescue they purposely restricted themselves to Stoors, since these were to become hobbrim. My guess is that the three-part distinction will remain longer among the hobbits than the hobbrim, because of the former's migration routes. The hobbrim are all together on a small island, so dfferences will blend faster.

The Tooks (Fallohides) are always the loremasters in our story. Lindo was also a Fallohide, I believe, but I don't think he was a Took. (Helen, is that true?) The only exception is Andril the Hobbrim, and Cami herself (if you count her in that class.) The two brothers Phura and Gamba Took are required to choose different destinations at the end, so the Took line will be preserved among both hobbrim and hobbits. I see the situation similar to the First Age. There were friendships between the three groups, but intermarriage was rare.

Yes, hobbits are sturdy. But the LotR and Hobbit assumes that they had certain basic skills. I am not sure how many of those skills survived after 60+ years in prison.
Having some implied interaction with the wood Elves in Anduin is possible, especially in terms of the fairy mentioned in the Took family line. (I can see it now--Gamba chasing after a wood Elf down the Anduin when he gets a bit older!)

Perhaps it would be more realistic to assume a few weeks at the end after the hobbit/hobbrim choice (rather than an extended period) where things would be briefly sorted out, battle wounds and prison illnesses healed, weapons and other needed gear distributed, basic survival tips taught, and leaders acknowledged and/or appointed. Then after that few weeks, the goodbyes are said and the Star and Elven ships do transport to the Third Age. This would be a little like the time after Cormallen where the fellowship hung around together, enjoying each other's company, before they finally departed and split up.

I think Ancalimon would promise to keep his eye on the hobbits in Anduin (he'd be going to the Third Age too!) and also enlist the aid of the Wood Elves, at least for the first generation. Perhaps this would cover it.

It's likely that Cami would be acknowledged as the wise woman for the Fallohides, at least until Gamba came of age, and that would at least guarantee she wouldn't starve. Whatever small measure of learning still survived, it would be among this group. Also Cami would be the one to interact with the Wood Elves, since she knew more of Elves than the others. Maybe she could squeeze lembas recipe out of them!

sharon

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[mark12_30]

Hey, if you're going to be Wise Woman and Elf Ambassador, that's pretty serious Position In Life. I should arrange for five or six more kids.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen --

Have pity! Stop now before it's too late. Cami goes and hides her head under a pillow. sharon

[Rose Cotton]

CHILD! Are you forgeting your little helper!!! You don't have to look after the children all by yourself. Rose wants to help. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[mark12_30]

I knew it!!!! Yay, Rose!!!

[Child of the 7th Age]

Rose --

That's true. I hope you're a really good shot with the bow as those kids are going to be very hungry. (You know how hobbits are?!!) And, while you're at it, you better get out there and teach every person in the community how to handle a sword. I suggest in the next few weeks you expand your repertoire to include the spear and axe.

You're going to be busy, busy in the Third Age! It appears you are now in charge of all hunting and "military" defence since you have more experience than any of the hobbits
in the tombs.

sharon

[mark12_30]

All together, cavehobbits:

"AZRA HAS RETURNED!!!!
We are your eager students!
(Er--What's an axe??)"

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Gandalf_theGrey]

mark12_30:

Thank you for your kind welcome. * bows *

Behind the scenes, I've been sent a PM that bids me official welcome on behalf of the rest of the story originators. Publicly my appearance here reminds me of a certain fateful day when there came a tremendous ring on the front-door bell of Bilbo Baggins' Hobbit hole. Perhaps The Powers That Be here at the Lonely Star are now peering round out the windows to see whether an entire troupe of Dwarven story-readers will show up in groups of two and four, to join Bethberry and I in becoming what she would call "pestering voices." Ah, yes, at first Bilbo rather wished to be rid of me when I appeared on his doorstep one morning. * good-natured smile *

With Frodo too, there was something about blowing his door right down his hole and out through the hill if he didn't let me in. So I expect that from humble beginnings, all's well that will end better. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Gandalf the Grey

[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

[mark12_30]

For Daisy, Rose, Bird, me, and anybody else writing about the caves: just to summarize what Bird agreed on for cave-behavior: all morphing offscreen (No public morphing), and Lady-form only for the elders. It's okay for Daisy to have, in the public hobbit eye, four different and mysterious friends (dragon, bird, neekerbreeker, dolphin) who only happen to show up one at a time. Loremaster and the elders will be hiding Bird's shapeshifter identitiy from the throng of common hobbits, Phura and Gamba included. (Bird, if I forgot something please advise.) --Helen

[piosenniel]

Bird

HOLLY! There is a hobbit named Holly on THE list!!!!

[mark12_30]

(chewing nails, stomach sinking)

[Birdland]

Oh, S***! No, it can't be THAT Holly...can it?

I was cutting back the hollyhocks in the back yard, and the name just came to me, that's all!

And not everyone on the list will be "selected". Maybe the captain will get a craving for that stew.

[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

[piosenniel]

No, of course it's not that Holly - but just the same, poor Pio's heart dropped to her toenails!!!

She will be wroth - and possibly brash and impulsive! I'm starting to think the Valinor vaccination is starting to wear off. It must be that you all bring out the 'worst' in her!

[piosenniel]

CAMI DEAREST!

Lucky for Pio you don't know the difference between saltwater and freshwater eels - poor Levanto will be searching his saltwater grottoes for them, and the Elf will be left to her own devices in peace!! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Pio---

Just as long as the eels aren't 5 feet long with sharp teeth!

I just hope Pio behaves which in view of her previous conduct seems somewhat suspect.

Cami

[mark12_30]

Dear Cavewriters, I'm planning for a dinnertime scene involving Daisy and Gamba, is that ok? Somebody please drop me a hint when it's dinnertime. --Helen

ps. Rose, are you there? I keep hoping to see Anee speak up. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Rose Cotton]

I don't know what to say. You all seem to be telling the story well without me. But I'll think of somthing.

*Marches over to the Lonely Star Role Play room*

I'M NOT LEAVING THIS SPOT 'TIL I THINK OF SOMTHING TO WRITE. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[mark12_30]

Rose, I'm working on a very long "dinnertime" post (too long, it'll be in at least two peices.) If you want to add anything aat all to it, from Anee or anybody else, anywhere in the posts, I'll break it into three for you anywhere you like; after you read it just let me know. It'll go up at "dinner", cave-time. OK?

Love, --Helen

ps. The email I gave you goes home, not here, so PM me or post here during the day-- thanks

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[piosenniel]

Note: Daisy is on her first day at the guard house. Lunch is done. Bird has found a letter and a list. Soon Daisy will be back to the Captain's office to get Bird and walk back to the caves with Anee. I will leave the dinnertime scene to Helen and to Rose, provided this is the evening you want to put it in. Use Daisy as needed for dialog. Tomorrow (Story time) is when a lunch scene might be put in, if you wish.

Pio is in the waters along the coastline - she will not be back to the Star until tomorrow. (Story time)

Mith and Ancalimon are off gathering supplies. They will not be back until tomorrow (Story time)

Cami and everyone else continue on the Star.

Today ship time is 10 Cermië

Teleri arrive in 11 days - 21 Cermië

[Child of the 7th Age]

Rose -- I sent a pm this morning suggesting several ideas that you might want to develop for your character. There are a number of ways you and Daisy could interact. Of course, you may be overflowing with your own ideas by now and, if this is the case, just ignore.

sharon

[Mithadan]

Humph! I wander off for a weekend and return to find I've been bundled up and sent off my own ship with a grocery list and some silver pennies and called a "blackguard"! There's no respect for authority on this vessel.

And as for the stereotypical suggestions made about my character, well let's see if the shoe fits:

Mithadan wanders in at 3:00am with rumpled clothes and his breath stinking of ale. He kicks off his muddy boots, sending them skittering across the floor. "Pio!" he roars. "This place is a mess! Silence those bawling brats and make me a sandwich!" *burps*

Oh! The injustice of it all!

BTW, where are you going to get barbeque sauce for the fresh water eel? Japan doesn't exist yet....

[Child of the 7th Age]

Everyone --

I am having serious problems writing posts for Cami. It's not a matter of writer's block. I can string words together but they have minimal relevence to our central plot. This has been going on a long time, but I've finally reached the impenetrable wall. Let me explain.

Since Beleriand, Cami's role has been essentially that of observer. The hobbit has spent hours reflecting on her own situation and commenting on what others have done. The problem is that she has resolved most of her own personal issues and is left with little to do. I have also kept Cami busy by activities that lend background to the plot: inventorying the storerooms, gathering supplies, discussing history, crafting quilts, writing journals, tutoring children, etc. (Sounds like a college dorm!)

She and the other hobbits on the Star find themselves restriced by their own mental and physical limitations as well as the circumstances in Numenor. The complex strategy and planning of the rescue was mecessarily above hobbit heads. Like the hobbits in the tombs, Cami's job on the Star is to wait and remain hidden. She can not be seen by anyone outside the ship. (Mith had this problem in Gondolin, but it disappeared after a two-day visit.) Nor does she have the physical ability to fly or swim away a la Bird or Pio or Levanto, or to engage in fierce battles. And, unlike Mithadan or Pio, there's no possibility for a romantic entanglement, because of the promises Cami's already made. Given the lack of activity, I have pushed her character as far as it will go.


If it were earlier in the plotline, I would have her do something crazy at this juncture to get herself in serious trouble, i.e. ground the ship on a sandbar, steal a skiff and sneak into Numenor itself and get thrown in prison, fly off on Angara's back to do some spying, have the ship encounter an enemy in some form or disguise. But none of this is possible or believable given that we're near the end of our tale and have clearly nailed down the direction we're going, and the necessity for secrecy.

All the hobbits on the Star are in the same predicament (including Rose), with the exception of Daisy. Kali does have the possibility of some romantic reflection as well as adjustment to the other hobbrim.

While both the hobbits on the Star and those in the tombs must sit and wait, there is an important difference. Just as in the camps of Beleriand, every action in the tombs is set against a backdrop of danger. Everyday life assumes an importance that is stirring in itself. But such is not the case within the peaceful refuge of the Star, where Cami's most difficult problem is worrying whether she has enough fresh fruit!

One of the things that has struck me about this tale is how different a land and sea tale are. Except for the actual battle or rescue scenes, the ship itself acts as a refuge, almost as an insulator. Unfortunately, Cami has been in the "insulator" so long she's fallen asleep.

In view of my inability to write out of this impasse, I will be cutting back on Cami's posts. I will use her only when and if I feel she can make a contribution. You can assume that, like Veritas and Khelek, she is going about her job on the Star in the best way that she can. She will, of course, come out of mothballs at the end of the story to adopt her children, attend the wedding, and sail off into the horizon.

sharon

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]