Isengard- Help Wanted!

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me when Saruman started causing trouble to Rohan (beginning of Thengel's reign), even though if early on in Théoden's reign their appeared to be peace, to try to convince Théoden that history was repeating itself and Théoden needed an alliance with Saruman. I can see Saruman's offer he made "long ago" and he made again here, being something like: "I'm seeing the wild Dunlendings coming back and encroaching on your lands, as has happened before. A shadow is returning to Mordor and harassing Gondor again, you won't get any help from them. Besides in those earlier troubles they left Isengard in command of someone who was sympathetic and allowed the wildmen to invade. Fortunately, I'm in Isengard now and offer my friendship and help to handle the Dunlanders. You won't get aid from Gondor. I was placed in Isengard to be the commander in the defenses of the West, Gondor has been without a king for centuries, making you, Théoden, the mightiest King in the western lands. I have long foreseen this war and only friendship with me can save you."

I was interested in what you had to say there, Boromir88. In terms of what Gandalf said to Théoden and others about Saruman in the LotR chapter 'The King of the Golden Hall' (Book 2, Chapter VI), after Wormtongue's treachery was revealed and he was sent packing, we read this:

'How far back his treachery goes, who can guess?' said Gandalf. 'He was not always evil. Once I do not doubt that he was the friend of Rohan; and even when his heart grew colder, he found you useful still. But for long now he had plotted your ruin, wearing the mask of friendship, until he was ready. In those years Wormtongue's task was easy, and all that you did was swiftly known in Isengard; for your land was open, and strangers came and went.'

I agree with Legate in that Wormtongue's real relationship with Saruman was kept secret by both, so him carrying any official messages from the latter would be out of the question. Any kind of relationship would have been seized upon by Théoden's son, nephew and others to accuse him of, at the very least, conflicting loyalties. Even at the end, when Wormtongue is banished, and comes back to an Isengard in ruins, he pretends to the Ents that he is still a counsellor to Théoden, with a message from him to Saruman, not knowing that Treebeard had been altered to his true status.

While I agree with your suggestion, Boromir88, that Saruman may have made an offer to Théoden early in the latter's reign, I disagree that it might have been in the way you describe. For example, any offer would have excluded the slightest bit of anti-Gondorian sentiment. We have to remember that not only were Gondor and Rohan close allies; Théoden was half-Gondorian due to his mother, and was himself born in Gondor. Also, Théoden appears to have been a genuinely much loved monarch, which suggests that he was one of genuine ability, perhaps able to detect something 'not right' in Saruman's offer, without actually believing in his treachery.

Saruman, like Sauron, was a Maia, a being who could afford to wait a long time; so perhaps he might have formulated, soon after the rejection of such an offer by Théoden, the idea of 'turning' someone like Wormtongue, giving him the appearance of having sufficient (and genuine) abilities to rise high in his king's eyes, at a later time when the king was older and any perception that he was 'not right' in making some decisions would be passed off as evidence of old age.