The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 08-18-2011, 03:06 AM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,499
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril “Thee” and “thou” in “The Lord of the Rings”

“Thee” and “thou” are virtually obsolete in modern English, and have been for well over a century at least. Therefore Tolkien’s use of this second person pronoun in several passages of his story is anachronistic and commanded my attention while reading. I asked myself: Why did he choose it, who said it, and what significance does it have?

On this international forum, a word of explanation may be needed. Native speakers of English and some other languages have only one second person pronoun to use when addressing others: in English, “you”. Other languages, such as German and French, have two different pronouns, one for formal usage, the other for informal, familiar usage. The formal pronoun is used for strangers, elders, and persons of respect. The familiar pronoun is used for family, equals, children, and as a sign of disrespect.

If we encounter “thee”, “thou”, “thy”, “thine” etc. in English, it is only in old literature – spoken usage is, for all practical purposes, extinct. Most likely we hear it in Shakespeare’s plays or when the King James Bible is read. That’s why its connotation has changed – originally, “you” was the formal personal pronoun, and “thee” was familiar. To us nowadays, “thee” sounds antiquated and therefore formal, so it no longer carries the meaning it once had, of a close relationship between speaker and listener.

Three passages, all of them in RotK, have a particularly significant use of the pronoun. (There are a few other examples which we can discuss later on, if enough are interested.) The first one is found in “The Passing of the Grey Company”, in two conversations that take place between Éowyn and Aragorn before he takes the Paths of the Dead. At first, she uses the normal “you” as they speak of more general issues and of herself. But then, when she begs him not to go, she uses “thee”:
Quote:
‘Neither have those others who go with thee. They go only because they would not be parted from thee – because they love thee.’
And on the next morning:
Quote:
‘Aragorn, wilt thou go? ... Then wilt thou not let me ride with this company, as I have asked? ... I beg thee!’
Aragorn, however, does not use the familiar pronoun, but answers with “you”.

I get the feeling that Éowyn is so overcome by her love and concern for Aragorn that she perhaps inadvertantly uses the familiar pronoun. Her speech betrays the secret of her heart – unintentionally or in the only way she can find to let him know how she feels. This is the “Du”* of a lover, attempting to bridge the distance between herself and the one she loves.

How do you feel when you read this passage? Did you notice Éowyn’s choice of words, and what did you think about it? If you are not a native English speaker, does your translation of the book make this distinction? If so, how does it affect your perception of the passage?


(The other two passages will follow within the next day or two.)


*German familiar personal pronoun
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:37 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.