The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 07-10-2010, 07:57 AM   #1
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
betraying Gondolin

So who betrayed Gondolin? Maeglin... but also, from The War of the Jewels, The Wanderings of Húrin:

Quote:
At this point in the draft manuscript my father wrote:

'Later when captured and Maeglin wished to buy his release with treachery, Morgoth must answer laughing, saying: Stale news will but nothing. I know this already, I am not so easily blinded! So Maeglin was obliged to offer more -- to undermine resistance in Gondolin.'

[a further note of almost exact wording adds] 'and to compass the death of Tuor and Earendil if he could. If he did he would be allowed to retain Idril (said Morgoth).'

Note 30 The Wanderings of Húrin

These are notes by Tolkien to himself, at least one written at the point in the draft of The Wanderings of Húrin where Húrin's cry is noted as being heard and etc, as used for the 1977 Silmarillion. That is, at this point...

Quote:
'Yet there were ears that heard the words that Húrin spoke, and report of all came soon to the Dark Throne in the north; and Morgoth smiled, for he knew now clearly in what region Turgon dwelt, though because of the eagles no spy of his could yet come within sight of the land behind the Encircling Mountains. This was the first evil that the freedom of Húrin achieved.'

Of the Ruin of Doriath

Back to WJ, Christopher Tolkien notes: 'Thus the story in Q was changed (IV. 143),' and then it is explained that the story in Q was retained for the 1977 Silmarillion, used in conjunction with the later text from WH.

I have no problem with Christopher Tolkien's choice to use both descriptions in the 1977 Silmarillion, but if the story was changed (as CJRT again notes in the Tale of Years in WJ), then was it changed to such a degree that the emphasis, at least, of the betrayal of Gondolin shifted to the mighty Húrin?


Again, keeping in mind the note comes from a point in the text wherein Morgoth 'knew now clearly in what region Turgon dwelt', and that this was the first evil that the freedom of Húrin achieved, to me this appears to inspire the change: Morgoth must say he knows the location... because he really does already know it.

CJRT noted in the Foreword of WJ that so much of the last chapters of Quenta Silmarillion remained in the form of the Quenta Noldorinwa of 1930 (aside from meagre hints) -- in other words, they weren't updated in the 1950s for example, like earlier chapters had been. 'Maeglin' was updated (the chapter), but Maeglin's capture before Morgoth remains basically from the Silmarillion of 1930 (not even the Quenta Silmarillion of the later 1930s). And...

Quote:
'For this there can be no simple explanation, but it seems to me that an important element was the centrality that my father accorded to the story of Húrin and Morwen and their children, Túrin Turambar and Nienor Niniel. This became for him, I think, the dominant and absorbing story of the end of the Elder Days, in which complexity of motive and character, trapped in the mysterious workings of Morgoth's curse, sets it altogether apart. (...)'
CJRT then notes the new dimension to the ruin that Húrin's release would bring: his catastrophic entry into the land of Haleth's people (WH).

But could Húrin as the 'principle betrayer' of Gondolin be part of this too?



For the 1977 Silmarillion, combining Quenta Noldorinwa (QN) and the Wanderings of Húrin (WH) leaves the impression (or does it?) that Húrin only betrayed a general location, and Maeglin's betrayal was needed for the assault, as Maeglin gave Morgoth the 'very' location of Gondolin (the word 'very' was added by CJRT), and 'the ways whereby it might be found and assailed.' (QN)


Comments? disagreements? especially if I've missed something and strayed off the path here.

Last edited by Galin; 07-10-2010 at 08:10 AM.
Galin is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:26 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.