Survivor: The Second Age

[the phantom]

Ang, there is something in your Elendil argument I don't agree with.

"Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world."

You think this Elendil quote was a display of arrogance. It wasn't- it was foresight. There's a big difference.

And then this-

The fact that we have more material on Galadriel is a sign that Celeborn was indeed a loving and appreciative husband.

Either that, or perhaps Celeborn took great pleasure in displaying his trophy-wife at every opportunity, where as Elendil had enough respect for his wife to allow her to live her life as she wished and didn't insist on showing her off. Did you think of that?

Now, that said, I do believe the Elendili tribe should be trimmed soon, so a vote for Elendil isn't the worst thing in the world, though I'd rather vote off Anarion than Elendil.

But the person I'd really like to take care of is Treebeard, so I will now respond to Eomer's defense of the stiff, inactive old bore.

'Hasty' and 'Takes too long' are both relative descriptions.

Yes, relative to me, and you should know by now that I care about how things relate to me far more than how they relate to anything else.

Considering how sweet and wonderful Treebeard was...
He's nice.

WHAT?!

Take your time reading the line below, Eomer. Let it sink in.

Treebeard....was...not....nice.

This is what Treebeard said to Merry and Pippin in the chapter entitled "Treebeard"-

But if I had seen you, before I heard your voices- I liked them: nice little voices; they reminded me of something I cannot remember- if I had seen you before I heard you, I should have just trodden on you, taking you for little Orcs, and found out my mistake afterwards.

The only reason Treebeard didn't squash Merry and Pippin immediately was that he thought their voices were cute. That doesn't sound very nice to me.

Treebeard needs to go.

And now, to respond briefly to Sauce.

He has not explained which votes from yesterday were discounted and which were not.

I explained though. Can't you infer from my explanation what probably happened?

I fail to see why votes for Elrond because of perceived character flaws (mormegil’s and Elu Ancalime’s, for example) should be discounted.

Oh, come on, you're just being stubborn. "Elrond is a sissy" is obviously not a legitimate argument. No where in Tolkien's books does Tolkien hint at Elrond being a sissy. On the contrary, Tolkien describes him as strong. If Formendacil accepted a vote that said "Elrond is a sissy", he would have to accept a vote for Sauron that said "Sauron is a messy eater".

When making a vote, you can't just claim personality flaws without a reason, particularly flaws that are completely absent from Tolkien's writings. That is extremely easy to understand, SPM, so don't even try and wiggle around and pretend that you don't get why morm and Elu's votes were likely not counted. I'm sure the two of them understand completely.

The people who voted for Oropher put their finger cleary on the fact that not much was written about Oropher. The people who called Elrond a sissy or unwise or whatever weren't putting their finger clearly on anything at all. If you don't understand this then you are conciously trying not to.

the phantom discounts TORE’s vote because it refers back to spawn’s reasoning. On that basis, the votes of Celuien and (particularly) lord of dor-lomin would also need to be discounted

Nope. False.

TORE did not quote Spawn's reasoning, nor did he attempt to put the reasoning into his own words. All he said was that he was leaning towards her reasoning.

Celuien and lord, on the other hand, both gave reasoning in their own words. That is an important difference. When you are at school, do teachers allow you to answer a question "I think the same thing as John does"? No, they expect you to give the answer in your own words, even if your reasoning is the same as John's.

That is the situation here. Don't even try and argue it. It mirrors what is considered an acceptable practice elsewhere, so rather than complain or fight it just live with it.