Did Eru have physical form? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Sharkû*** · 11-26-2003, 05:14 AM

The idea that in the end, Eru will come to claim His creation from Morgoth is pretty much the whole point of _estel_. On the same ground, this is another proof that Eru cannot be physically present before the End; in which, as Andreth considers, the coming of the creator into his work might even shatter it altogether:

<font size="-2">'Truly,' said Andreth. 'So may Eru in that mode be present in Eä that proceeded from Him. But they speak of Eru Himself entering into Arda, and that is a thing wholly different. How could He the greater do this? Would it not shatter Arda, or indeed all Eä?'
'Ask me not,' said Finrod. 'These things are beyond the compass of the wisdom of the Eldar, or of the Valar maybe. But I doubt that our words may mislead us, and that when you say "greater" you think of the dimensions of Arda, in which the greater vessel may not be contained in the less.
'But such words may not be used of the Measureless. If Eru wished to do this, I do not doubt that He would find a way, though I cannot foresee it. For, as it seems to me, even if He in Himself were to enter in, He must still remain also as He is: the Author without. [...]
Therefore Eru, if He will not relinquish His work to Melkor, who must else proceed to mastery, then Eru must come in to conquer him." (HoME X, 4)

On the other hand, it is well possible that this very conception was considered "too like a parody of Christianity" (ibid, commentary).

11-26-2003, 05:14 AM	#24
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	The idea that in the end, Eru will come to claim His creation from Morgoth is pretty much the whole point of _estel_. On the same ground, this is another proof that Eru cannot be physically present before the End; in which, as Andreth considers, the coming of the creator into his work might even shatter it altogether: <font size="-2">'Truly,' said Andreth. 'So may Eru in that mode be present in Eä that proceeded from Him. But they speak of Eru Himself entering into Arda, and that is a thing wholly different. How could He the greater do this? Would it not shatter Arda, or indeed all Eä?' 'Ask me not,' said Finrod. 'These things are beyond the compass of the wisdom of the Eldar, or of the Valar maybe. But I doubt that our words may mislead us, and that when you say "greater" you think of the dimensions of Arda, in which the greater vessel may not be contained in the less. 'But such words may not be used of the Measureless. If Eru wished to do this, I do not doubt that He would find a way, though I cannot foresee it. For, as it seems to me, even if He in Himself were to enter in, He must still remain also as He is: the Author without. [...] Therefore Eru, if He will not relinquish His work to Melkor, who must else proceed to mastery, then Eru must come in to conquer him." (HoME X, 4) On the other hand, it is well possible that this very conception was considered "too like a parody of Christianity" (ibid, commentary).