Luthien: Maia or Elf.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Okay, the main point is taken, Thingol is certainly a top-notch elf.

However, I have to disagree with your assessment of the capabilities of the later-age Elves. As you have it, Elrond should not be nearly as potent as Galadriel, coming as he does three more generations down the line, but at the end of the Third Age he seems to be pretty much on par with her, if not exactly so.

Furthermore, I still stand by my assertation that Gil-galad was as great a king or greater than his First Age predecessors. (Certainly he had a MUCH longer and more successful reign). In addition, I would say that the kingdom of Eregion was every bit as successful and grand as Hithlum, Himring, Nargothrond (although not Gondolin). Certainly, the craft of the Elves was amazing. With the exception of Gondolin, I would say that the craft of the Elves SUPERCEDED that of the First Age Elves (although not the Valinorean pre-trees craft).

In addition, by trotting out Galadriel as evidence of greater strength, you are somewhat undermining your theory, as Galadriel is two generations down from Finwe (and both Finwe and her father had large families), and should not thus be listed (by Tolkien in his later life) as perhaps as great an elf as Feanor, if in totally different ways.

Actually I would rank Elrond behind Galadriel in inherent power..... although he is my favourite character his power is more in wisdom than in this inherent power - "the power that is in him" as Gandalf says of Glorfindel - which is enough to drive all the Nazgul in to the Bruinen and is linked by Gandalf to his time in Valinor.

I certainly don't think that Eregion was better than Gondolin... or Gil Galad equal to Fingolfin. but certainly you are not obliged to agree with me.
The point about the larger families in the early elves is that they are at the height of their powers and have the desire, strength and confidence for them - tbe main reason Finwe remarried was for this purpose.

And re Galadriel - the argument you pin on me is, once again not the one I was making.