The White Council - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Frodo Baggins · 06-21-2002, 10:12 AM

All right, I have heard quite a lot about thw White council. But I am confused and curious. Just eactly who are the members of the White Council?

obloquy · 06-21-2002, 10:22 AM

Galadriel, Gandalf, Saruman, and probably Radagast, Elrond, Celeborn, and Cirdan. Tolkien never gave us an official roster as far as I know.

Elrian · 06-21-2002, 12:55 PM

And probably the Elven Lords like Glorfindel.

*Varda* · 06-21-2002, 01:36 PM

obloquy mentioned Galadriel already as being in the White Council

Fingolfin of the Noldor · 06-21-2002, 02:12 PM

Actually it seems that Radagast(Aiwendil) was not a member of the white council which is actually not surprising given what is stated as per his deliquence:

Quote:

But at length the Shadow returned and its power increased; and in that time was first made the Council of the Wise that is called the White Council, and therein were Elrond and Galadriel and Cirdan, and other lords of the Eldar, and with them were Mithrandir and Curunir. And Curunir (that was Saruman the White) was chosen to be their chief... Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

obloquy · 06-21-2002, 02:38 PM

Good quote, Fingolfin. I had a feeling I had read something along those lines before but I couldn't find it when I went looking.

burrahobbit · 06-21-2002, 03:12 PM

Mayhaps also the current Chieftan of the Dunedain.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-21-2002, 03:45 PM

I think it's a kind of Middle Earth UN, all the major people of the world.

Tarthang · 06-21-2002, 05:00 PM

Ok, so we know who made up the White Council. Anyone got any idea's on where they convened when in session?

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-21-2002, 05:45 PM

I've wondered about that, too. I guess I always imagined it being held in Isengard because Saruman was the chief. I wonder if there were any dwarves and men? I don't remember any mentioned that would be "high" enough to be included though.

Arwen Imladris · 06-21-2002, 05:53 PM

Ya, I always assumed Isengard as well. But perhaps they sometimes met in Rivendell. That would also seem an apropriate place to meet.

Quote:

I wonder if there were any dwarves and men?

What about hobbits? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Kuruharan · 06-21-2002, 06:39 PM

Quote:

I wonder if there were any dwarves and men?

I doubt it. Elves can be so stuck up you know. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-26-2002, 11:44 AM

Boromir didn't seem to have been aware of the White Council's existence, and if any man should've known about it, it would've been him (or Aragorn). After all, he was the eldest son of the Steward of Gondor. I don't think that any men were in on it, and dwarves probably weren't invited either because they don't get along well with those snobbish elves [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img].

Daniel Telcontar · 06-26-2002, 11:52 AM

Rivendell could be a meeting place, but I think Isengard is more likely. Gandalf did not want to be leader, because he did not want to be confined to one place. That suggests that the leader's place was the meeting palce. Also when Saruman began to have an unhealthy interest in the One Ring, the meetings ceased to exist. Maybe because they weren't able to meet at a new place, or couldn't decide where (Elrond: at my place; Galadriel: No my place; Cirdan: No, my place!).

I doubt that any Men/dwarves were in the council. As in the quote in one of the above posts, only some of the Istari and Eldar (higher Elves) were in the council.

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-26-2002, 02:26 PM

Maybe only Elves and Istari were included because the others were too young and had rather confined viewpoints, whereas the really ancient ones like Galadriel and Cirdan had seen everything from their "golden perches" and were in a better position to make decisions.

MallornLeaf · 06-26-2002, 02:56 PM

The only people in the counsil were the top elflords and the Istary. Possibly Glorfindel, but there were no men, dwarves, or Hobbits.

Aule · 06-26-2002, 04:27 PM

I agree with silver shod muse in that only the wise like Galadriel and Gandalf had enough experiance and wisdom to deal with the matters at hand. Although, if any man were to be included it would have to be Aragorn.

Daniel Telcontar · 06-27-2002, 03:48 AM

You do not hear much of the actions, the White Council ever made, except from the Dol Guldur incident. But how did they drive Sauron out? By weapon force, or some sort of magical effort?

Lostgaeriel · 03-18-2003, 09:22 PM

I've also been looking for the location of the White Council meetings.

From Unfinished Tales - The Hunt for the Ring, (ii) Other Versions of the Story:

Quote:

Now because of his dislike and fear, in the later days Saruman avoided Gandalf, and they seldom met, except at the assemblies of the White Council. It was at the great Council held in 2851 that the 'Halflings' leaf' was first spoken of, and the matter was noted with amusement at the time, though it was afterwards remembered in a different light. The Council met in Rivendell, and Gandalf sat apart, silent, but smoking prodigiously (a thing he had never done before on such an occasion), while Saruman spoke against him, and urged that contrary to Gandalf's advice Dol Guldur should not yet be molested. ...

I think we can safely assume that the White Council met in Rivendell in 2941 & 2953 as well.

Recall also that Gandalf leaves Bilbo, Thorin & Co. at the edge of Mirkwood so he can get to the 2941 Council meeting in time. See the end of The Hobbit, Queer Lodgings just after they leave Beorn.

Earlier in the same chapter:

Quote:

'I always meant to see you all safe (if possible) over the mountains, said the wizard, 'and now by good management and good luck I have done it. Indeed we are now a good deal further east than I ever meant to come with you, for after all this is not my adventure. I may look in on it again before it is all over, but in the meanwhile I havesome other pressing business to attend to.'

So either he was going to double back to Rivendell or go on to Lothlórien for the meeting. I vote for Rivendell; I doubt Saruman would ever agree to meet in Lothlórien. (I doubt too that Galadriel would let him in!)

[ March 18, 2003: Message edited by: Lostgaeriel ]

06-21-2002, 10:12 AM	#1
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	The White Council All right, I have heard quite a lot about thw White council. But I am confused and curious. Just eactly who are the members of the White Council? __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

06-21-2002, 12:55 PM	#3
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	And probably the Elven Lords like Glorfindel. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

06-21-2002, 01:36 PM	#4
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 571	obloquy mentioned Galadriel already as being in the White Council __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

06-21-2002, 03:12 PM	#7
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	Mayhaps also the current Chieftan of the Dunedain. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

06-21-2002, 03:45 PM	#8
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I think it's a kind of Middle Earth UN, all the major people of the world. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-21-2002, 10:22 AM	#2
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	Galadriel, Gandalf, Saruman, and probably Radagast, Elrond, Celeborn, and Cirdan. Tolkien never gave us an official roster as far as I know.

06-21-2002, 02:38 PM	#6
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	Good quote, Fingolfin. I had a feeling I had read something along those lines before but I couldn't find it when I went looking.

06-21-2002, 05:00 PM	#9
Tarthang Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Paths of the Dead Posts: 108	Ok, so we know who made up the White Council. Anyone got any idea's on where they convened when in session?

06-21-2002, 05:45 PM	#10
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	I've wondered about that, too. I guess I always imagined it being held in Isengard because Saruman was the chief. I wonder if there were any dwarves and men? I don't remember any mentioned that would be "high" enough to be included though. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

06-26-2002, 11:44 AM	#13
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Boromir didn't seem to have been aware of the White Council's existence, and if any man should've known about it, it would've been him (or Aragorn). After all, he was the eldest son of the Steward of Gondor. I don't think that any men were in on it, and dwarves probably weren't invited either because they don't get along well with those snobbish elves [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

06-26-2002, 11:52 AM	#14
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	Rivendell could be a meeting place, but I think Isengard is more likely. Gandalf did not want to be leader, because he did not want to be confined to one place. That suggests that the leader's place was the meeting palce. Also when Saruman began to have an unhealthy interest in the One Ring, the meetings ceased to exist. Maybe because they weren't able to meet at a new place, or couldn't decide where (Elrond: at my place; Galadriel: No my place; Cirdan: No, my place!). I doubt that any Men/dwarves were in the council. As in the quote in one of the above posts, only some of the Istari and Eldar (higher Elves) were in the council. __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

06-26-2002, 02:26 PM	#15
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Maybe only Elves and Istari were included because the others were too young and had rather confined viewpoints, whereas the really ancient ones like Galadriel and Cirdan had seen everything from their "golden perches" and were in a better position to make decisions. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

06-26-2002, 02:56 PM	#16
MallornLeaf Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Location: who cares? Posts: 76	The only people in the counsil were the top elflords and the Istary. Possibly Glorfindel, but there were no men, dwarves, or Hobbits. __________________ ". . . All we must decide is what to do with the time that is given us." "I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."

06-26-2002, 04:27 PM	#17
Aule Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hammering away in Valinor Posts: 126	I agree with silver shod muse in that only the wise like Galadriel and Gandalf had enough experiance and wisdom to deal with the matters at hand. Although, if any man were to be included it would have to be Aragorn. __________________ For him that is pitiless, the deeds of pity are ever strange and beyond reckoning - of Melkor before his final downfall

06-27-2002, 03:48 AM	#18
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	You do not hear much of the actions, the White Council ever made, except from the Dol Guldur incident. But how did they drive Sauron out? By weapon force, or some sort of magical effort? __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer