Predictions for Return of the King

Hey guys, what do you think Return of the King will be like? I hope it's good, but I will be really disapointed if they don't show the scouring of the shire. What do you guys think the movie will be like?

[GreyIstar]

Better than the other two even though they aren't showing the scouring. You people need to start reading up on the movies more so you don't get so angry when some changes suprise you.

[dunedain_aragorn]

I am sooo looking froward to it, but I really think they are going to combine the battle of Pelannor Fields and the battle of Cormallen.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I fear it will be extremely rushed, with all the extra Two Towers action still left.

[Iarwain]

If you'd really like to know, here's another thread with a bunch of people's thoughts. <P><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/chi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001487" TARGET=_blank>Looking Ahead to RotK</A> <P>Enjoy!<BR>Iarwain

I hope they do but I sorta think they will and sort of doubt that they will include the Scouring of the Shire, even though it was one of my favorite chapters. I laughed out loud when I read about the Hobbit deputies telling Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin what they can and can't do when they've just saved Middle Earth! So, yeah, I really hope they include it.<P> Otherwise, I think that the Shelob scene is going be very detailed, along with the Pire of Denethor. I think that the conversation with the Voice of Sauron will either not be included or cut short, and the crowning will be a big part in the movie.

[Pookabunny]

All's good for I am easy to please. HOWEVER, there are some <I>necessities</I> to Lord of the Rings - especially in ROTK.<P>1) The Witchking Scene - with Merry and Eowyn! If they skip that, I'll have to pull another "whua WHAT?!?!?" like I did at the Helm's Deep battle when Haldir felt the wrath of the orcs.<BR>2) Flotsam and Jetsam - if they skip Merry and Pippin smokin phat doobes at Isengard, I'm gonna kick something HARD. And when I saw TTT I was wearing armor plated BOOTS. So something's gonna get hurt.<BR>3) The fields of Pelennor. 'Nuff said. I'm a big PJ supporter, however critical I may be. But if this is messed with, I'll just have to pull all my nails off, chew them, and spit projectiles at stuff.<BR>4) The Wedding<BR>5) Eowyn getting over Aragorn<BR>6) Some kind of redemption in Faramir's character<BR>7) The "Greeter" at the black gate<BR>and finally, the MOST important:<BR>8) THE END. HOW IT <B>SHOULD</B> BE. There's only one way to end it. And I'm not talking about Scouring of the Shire. I can live without Scouring. I don't want to ruin it or spoil this for people who have not read the books, but if you think Frodo's spooky in TTT...<I>wait till the 'end' of ROTK</I>....ooooh boy....

[Weber]

I agree. especielly with merry and eowyn. its definetely a part that they need in RoTK

[Durelin]

No matter what, it will ROCK! End of story. Hey, not everyone has enough time to check on every single bit of news about the LOTR films. Most people have many other things more important to do. The only reason I know about things is because of a friend of mine who checks up on news 24/7! She is crazy, not all of us are. Thankyou very much GreyIstar!

[-Imrahil-]

PJ has GOT to inclue Gandalf lines at the end: (forgive not exactly quoted)<P>And so upon the shores of the sea ends our fellowship here on Middle Earth. I will not say; do not weep, for not all tears are an evil.<P><BR>It makes me cry everytime I read the book and in the movies it would be sooo gooodddd.... I know Ian can pull it off so well.

[Gorwingel]

I am very easy to please, ROTK is going to be wonderful, even though the previous movies have been different than the books. They have set us up for a very good film<P>And for those people who say that it is going to be rushed, Peter Jackson says it is so good that he is letting it go as long as it needs to be (within reason), he says it may be 3 1/2 hours long.

[Beruthiel]

I can't wait to see Faramir and Eowyn fall in love, I thought that was one of the sweetest things in ROTK. They better have that. I'm going to cry so hard at the end, they better do that right!! I wanna see Sam say 'Well, I'm back.' <BR>I also can't wait to see Merry and Eowyn kill the witch king, that is gonna be soooo cool! CAN'T WAIT!

[Faye Took]

Aww Faramir and Eowyn! AHH! Soooo cute! Sorry being weird. It's going to be soo good! I can't wait! I really wanna see Eowyn kick the Witchkings butt!

[Fool-of-a-Took]

I'd like to think that sams' final line "well, I'm back" will be in it. I also wonder if PJ will elaborate on the appendices a bit and tell of Sam becoming the Mayor and all that happened to the surviving members of the fellowship.<BR>Frodo lying naked in Minas Morgul should be a laugh as well!!

[Gorwingel]

Oh, I hope that they don't put the Frodo lying naked part in <BR>I was wondering how they were going to handle some of those scenes, and it will be very intesting to see Sam and Frodo wearing the orcs clothing, I can't wait.

[Greyhame]

ROTK will rule. PJ has already said that TTT differs the most of the three from the book, which means ROTK will follow Tolkien's vision a lot closer, as FOTR did. Good news.<P>In addition, he has promised TWO epic battles (Pelennor Fields/ Minas Tirith and The Morannon) that will eclipse Helm's Deep. Oh, brother.<P>Plus, Ain't It Cool News has quoted PJ as saying that Gollum's performance in TTT is just a teaser for what's to come. Seeing as Gollum was the absolute BEST part of TTT, that makes me squeal like a mirthful pig.<P>The Scouring is definitely out, but The Grey Havens promise to be a five-hanky ordeal. Sad, but hopeful, like the book.<P>Bring it on.

[The Saucepan Man]

No chance, I s'pose of the Woses being in it. <P>I picked up a TTT picture book in the shop the other day just to browse and it described the wildmen in Saruman's army at Helms Deep as Woses. Have they never heard of Dunlendings?

[zacattack]

As long as they have the Crowning,the 2 Battles and the part with Elrond,Frodo etc passing over the sea cause I really wanna see Eladan,Elrohir and Cirdan

[Pipperin]

They better have the palantir and flotsam and jetsam, they were some of my favorite parts in the book!!!!!

[Laialthriel]

Sad to say, but I think the Scouring is out. Which makes me sadder than I can say. Merry and Pippin are the best and even though I understand why they dont, I wish they got more screen time. <P>PJ has a big load to accomplish in RotK, but I truly believe he's going to do his best. He's a good director. I'm very encouraged when I hear him say it will be as long as necessary. Really, how many of us will be arguing if it's 4 hours long? Not me!! <P>What I'm really looking forward to:<P>I'm so stoked for the two battles it's hardly bearable. <BR>Frodo. It's going to be quite sad, and I'm excited yet dreading it at the same time. <BR>The witchking scene <I>had better be in there!</I> and that's all I have to say about that.<BR>Faramir and Eowyn....yay!! That boy had better redeem himself quickly...<BR>Merry and Pippin. More screen time would be so nice. *hopes and prays*<P>It's going to be a good movie. I know that for sure. Again, PJ has a tough job ahead of him and I send up prayers for him. My plan is to go into the theatre with more of an attitude of thinking it's not going to be exactly like the book, but it's going to be a good movie. If I want the book <BR><I>exactly</I>...I'm going to go read it. But as for <I>seeing</I> it...I'll go and watch an awesome movie. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Bring it on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Couldn't have said it better myself. It's gonna be awesome, guys.<p>[ January 08, 2003: Message edited by: Laialthriel ]

[Fingo]

If they leave the Scouring out, I'll cry. Plain and simple. I will bawl and tear up the theater. And I'll probably kick something. I know that they're suppossed to pull out all the stops on this movie, but if they don't include the Scouring and the death of Saruman and Wormtongue, *shew* I'll be making some calls and possibly some flights to New Zealand. LOL. <BR>I've read thr RotK more times than I can rightly count right now, and the part where Frodo is explaining to Sam that even though some people fight and struggle for something good, they don't always get to enjoy it ALWAYS makes me cry and I HOPE I HOPE I HOPE I HOPE they put that line in there like that. <BR>As it's looking right now, I'll probably cry at RotK. Because these movies have that kind of effect on me. Does anybody know that song I think it's by Saliva that goes "I love you, I hate you, I can't live without you!" That about sums up my feelings on the (soon to be) trilogy<P>*~Fingo~*

[Greyhame]

For the last time, the Scouring is OUT.<P>It wasn't even written or filmed.<P>It's not in the movie. STOP hoping that it will be, or you will be disappointed somehow with what promises to be the greatest film of all time.<P>THE SCOURING OF THE SHIRE IS NOT IN RETURN OF THE KING.<P>Does everyone understand now? Please nod if you do.

[Fool-of-a-Took]

Just to concur, the Scouring is definitely out. If you listen to PJ's commentary on the special edition, he explains this during the 'Mirror of Galadriel' scene, where Frodo sees "what may come to pass if you don't destroy the ring".<BR>According to the rumour mill, Saruman is killed there and then at Isengard by Wormtongue, thus destroying all hope of a scouring scene.<BR>I loved the chapter in the book, however I always found it ridiculous that Gandalf let him wander free after the Ents released him.<BR>Why wasn't he imprisoned or killed, after all, Gandalf knew he had allies in the vicinity of the Shire and Bree, and his foresight should have told him he would seek revenge somehow.<BR>I hope PJ includes the Pukel men and the banter between Shagrat and Gorbag.

[Thingol1000]

"6) Some kind of redemption in Faramir's character"<BR>and other "I hope Faramir reddeems himself" like stuff....ENOUGH<BR>Didn't you all watch TTT's and NOTICE that Faramir allowed Frodo and Sam to go?????<BR>That's it folks! You already SAW HIS REDEMPTION! You (and I as well) may not have liked what PJ originally did to his character, but PJ stayed true to the spirit of Tolkein. Hats off to him.<BR>Sorry about the caps, but jeeez people, open your eyes and stop being blinded by "the book" dogma.

[Lily Bracegirdle]

My predictions for RotK:<P>I think PJ and co. are going to up the volume: i.e., focus a lot on the battles and dispense with many of the quieter moments, at least as far as the non-Ringbearers are concerned. This means that the battle of the Pelennor fields is going to be fabulous beyond our wildest dreams, but I predict that things like Flotsam and Jetsam are probably going to get less than five minutes of screen time. I hope the Houses of Healing scenes are kept relatively intact, but wouldn't be surprised if they took up less than ten minutes.<P>I bet that Ghan-buri-ghan, Elladan, Elrohir, Halbarad, Imrahil and possibly even Beregond are not going to be included because they would take time to introduce. The only new character the movie must make time for is Denethor.<P>Galadriel challenged Elrond to help Men instead of sitting idly by in TTT. She sent Haldir to Helm's Deep, so that probably means Rivendell elves are going to show up at some point. I bet they'll appear where Halbarad was supposed to be.<P>As was mentioned on the "Hope for the Dunedain" thread, the Northern Rangers are out. That leaves Arwen to bring Narsil and the standard of the King to Aragorn herself. (Unless Elrond does it.) This will allow PJ to wrap up the Eowyn/Aragorn thing neatly (by having Aragorn's beautiful elf fiancee show up) and will give Eowyn extra incentive to ride off to glory/suicide. I hope Arwen doesn't ride down the Paths of the Dead or take part in the Pelennor battle, though. The only elf I want to see there is Legolas.<P>All side battles (Mirkwood, the dwarfs, etc.) won't be shown. <P>Shelob will definitely be an eye-opener given the high quality of the monsters seen so far, but I think a lot of the walking, running out of water and other toil associated with the Ringbearer's quest are going to be glossed over. Mount Doom will be awesome, though.<P>I don't know what will happen to Faramir. I'm afraid his romance with Eowyn will be downplayed. PJ spent so much time building up the Aragorn/Arwen thing he might not have room for another romance. (Though if he does that, he'll deserve to have book fangirls claw his eyes out!) Faramir may actually have more of a role in the movie than the book. Or at least I can hope. (After all, all he does in the third book is get shot, spend a lot of time unconscious and then make awkward passes at Eowyn, bless the man!) He can be Pippin's guide (instead of Beregond), take over the City once Denethor's dead (as I predict Imrahil's out) and maybe get some proper battle scenes in before he gets shot.<P>I hope the wedding isn't too cheesy. Galadriel told Aragorn (in the extended FotR) that they wouldn't meet again, so I guess she isn't going to be there. Does that mean she'll leave Middle Earth in the middle of the movie before the Hevens scene?<P>I wonder if Legolas and Gimli will be in the Havens scene. They kind of disappeared in the book, so I'd be happy to actually see them leave prematurely with Gandalf and the others. Hmm. Come to think of it, Aragorn and Arwen might show up to say goodbye. That way there can be a big emotional farewell between all the members of the Fellowship to cap the movie.<P>I'm looking forward to RotK but I'm going to be so sad when it's over! <P>-Lily

[maikafanawen]

*wipes tears*<P>Ok, Greyhame, I understand. I am very very very upset that they aren't going to have the scouring of the shire. That would make the movie have the happy hobbit-style ending that I hoped for. I don't want to lose hope but ... I've read too much to not believe it. <P>Does anybody know anything about the Paths of the Dead? I wanted them to keep that!!! I hope they don't take it out. <P>I am very nervous at how they do ROTK and what they take out and what they keep. I hope they don't screw it up. I mean, I have faith, but ... It's very nerve-racking!!<P>The battles sound great ... I too hope they have the bit with Merry and Pippin at Isengard. They MUST have Eowyn and Merry vs. the Witchking or *I* will kick something ... HARD! Faramir better shape up for Eowyn, and the Wedding should be spectacular. That's about it I guess.

[HCIsland]

The toughest thing I find to wrap my head around is the fate of Saruman without the scouring of the Shire. They'll have to finish him off somehow, but I'm not sure how. I hope it doesn't differ too much from what's in the book.<P>As for Flotsam and Jetsam, all we need is the image of Merry and Pippin sitting by the gates smoken and giving that "what?..." look to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas as they approach. Most of the rest of that chapter is them telling us what happened, which we've already seen.<P>H.C.<p>[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Kalimac]

Lily, that all makes a lot of sense. I'm hoping they don't change the Faramir/Denethor thing THAT much, though - I don't mean that Faramir can't have a more active role, but that he has to fall sick before Denethor kills himself. Otherwise you lose Pippin's implicit rescue of him, which is rather an important thing for both of them. The scene isn't nearly as frightening with Denethor threatening to immolate just himself.

[the real findorfin]

I presume that nothing to do with Minas Morgul is in (or was that supposed to be in TTT?) because it wasn't even on Faramir's map!

[HCIsland]

I would suspect that Frodo and Sam will get a glimps of the gates early in the film, though I think that would be about it.<P>I also suspect a playing with Middle Earth geography by having the Paths of the Dead lead out from Helm's Deep rather then Dunharrow. I think that's one of the reason's Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras are at Helm's Deep. They combined Helm's Deep and Dunharrow into one place. Isn't there also a line in the film where Aragorn asks Theoden if there is any other path out of Helm's Deep and Theoden says something about there is, but it would be no better? Could this be an early reference to the Paths of the Dead.<P>H.C.<p>[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> After all, all he does in the third book is get shot, spend a lot of time unconscious and then make awkward passes at Eowyn, bless the man! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <P>Lily, what a great summary of Faramir's role in the third book. <P>I think you've just about summed it up. It seems to make sense that Faramir will replace Imrahil, although I agree, Kalimac, that they ought to have him fall ill and with Denethor when he torches himself. <P>Shelob, Aragorn and the Palantir, Eowyn & Merry v the Witch King and the Siege of Gondor/Battle of Pelennor Fields are surely dead certs, as of course is Mount Doom.<P>I hope they have the Pippin and the Palantir and the Paths of the Dead (that will appeal to Jackson), and also the Battle before the Black Gate (although Pippin has already seemingly been crushed once already). And surely they will have Eowyn and Faramir, otherwise it will be a bit unfair on poor Eowyn. Mind you, if Faramir takes charge of Minis Tirith after his father's death, how will he find time to fall in love with her?<P>Almost definately out are Halbarad and the Rangers, Ghan-buri-Gahn and the Woses, Elornd's sons and Beregond.<P>Clearly, much of the journey through Mordor will be omitted (how much more can Frodo succumb to the Ring after TTT?). I will be interested to see how RotK deals with Frodo demanding the Ring back off Frodo (if, indeed Sam takes the Ring), given that Frodo has already tried to kill him once, in TTT.<P>I too would have liked to see the Scouring of the Shire in, but alas it loooks pretty certain not to be. I have read elsewhere that Saruman gets killed by Wormtongue at Orthanc. Apparently, they have filmed 5 different death scenes.<P>But, it will no doubt be great and I await with baited breath.

[Lily Bracegirdle]

Greetings, Kalimac! You're right, Faramir has to get shot in time to push Denethor over the edge, so he probably won't be up and around in time to take over the city. My guess is they'll ignore the power vacuum in the movie because I really don't think Imrahil is going to show up. ...Or maybe Gandalf or Aragorn will just take over while Faramir's ill.<P>I found a link to the cast list on another thread and already one of my predictions is wrong. Ghan-buri-ghan *will* make an appearance in RotK. The list wasn't complete, but there wasn't any mention of Beregond or the others. Maybe Pippin will have to hold the torches at bay by himself. It's a shame -- I really liked Beregond. (But I am excited if it means I get to see more Faramir!)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The scene isn't nearly as frightening with Denethor threatening to immolate just himself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That made me laugh! I think most people would encourage him, poor man!<P>HCIsland, I bet you're right about the Paths of the Dead. I didn't think of the foreshadowing at Helm's Deep, but it makes perfect sense. Do you think Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas will skip Isengard, then? It would be odd for them to ride out of Helm's Deep to Isengard and then ride back. Yay, maybe we'll get to see Legolas and Gimli doing cave-appreciation!<P>As for Saruman's fate, someone mentioned it on the RotK spoilers thread, so you can go there to find out. I stopped reading that thread after I found out because I realized I don't want to know exactly what's going to happen until I see the movie. Speculation is fine, but I want a little bit of surprise waiting for me! That's one good (?) side-effect of the much-debated changes in the movie: I never knew exactly how things were going to happen. The Harry Potter movies generated a teeny bit of boredom by being so close to the books -- maybe outrage isn't so bad after all. <P>-Lily

[Lily Bracegirdle]

Greetings, Saucepan Man! (Is it ok if I leave off the "The"?) Maybe I should have said "All he does in the third book is *fight with dad*, get shot, spend a lot of time unconscious..." On the Merry/Pippin spoilers thread someone quoted (I think Philippa?) as saying that the theme of RotK is "fathers and sons" and I can't really think of any other father/son combo except the Ruling Stewards. (I guess Merry's line to Theoden "As a father you shall be to me" might count.) That makes me hopeful Faramir will do more in the movie than I've given him credit for in the book. More (conscious!) screen time for Faramir means more chance for moviegoers to see the gentle heart I fell in love with when I was twelve. *hopes desperately*<P>-Lily

[The Saucepan Man]

Of course I don't mind if you leave off my "The", Lily. I'm not one to stand on ceremony.<P>On the "fathers and sons" theme, perhaps Frodo will turn out to be Sauron's long lost son! <P>I actually didn't mind Faramir too much in TTT. Granted, he wasn't quite as ready to let Frodo and Sam carry on their Quest as he was in the book, but he did let them go all the same in the end, despite the fact that his life would be forfeit (this sets it up nicely for the interaction with Denethor in RotK). And I hold with those who make the point that the tension had to be kept going to the same point as the other two threads of the tale. With Shelob bumped to the next film, the scenes in Osgiliath and Frodo being confronted by the Nazgul achieved that. But I did miss the great dialogue between Faramir, Frodo and Sam at Henneth Annun, which I found a bit dull when I first read the book (age 10), but have grown to love since.<P>I am surprised (but pleased) that Ghan-buri-ghan will be in. I like this chapter in the book very much, but would have thought that it was one of the parts that could quite easily be left out without affecting the basic story too much.

[HCIsland]

Here's a prediction that may bug you if PJ does it. I'll leave some spoiler space for those that haven't read RotK, though this is a complete guess on my part.<P>S<P><BR>P<P><BR>O<P><BR>I<P><BR>L<P><BR>E< P><BR>R<P>Smeagol jumps.<P>H.C.<p>[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Lalaith]

I really hope they keep the Houses of Healing scene, and give it proper attention. That is one of my favourite chapters in ROtK, and one of Aragorn's greatest moments.

[doug*platypus]

The more I think about TTT, the more I think that ROTK will both enrage and sicken me.<P>But I will see it anyway, and probably love it the first few times. And if I manage to spot myself in the final battle scene, all will be forgiven.

[Lalaith]

Really? Were you an extra? That's SO exciting...

[Lily Bracegirdle]

The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that Faramir will play a bigger role in the movie than he did in the book. If he was changed in order to have some "story-arc" that means there has to be some story devoted to him. Anyway, who else will represent the noble side of Gondor?<P>I wonder: who will rescue him on the battlefield if there are no Swan Knights? I hope it's Gandalf and not Eowyn.<P>HCIsland, your idea is intriguing. Smeagol winning out over Gollum in the end would make a very poignant finish to his tale of woe. With Frodo as far gone as he probably will be by that point, it'll reassure the audience that he too can overcome the Ring's influence.<P>Oh, I just had a horrible mental image of Smeagol's death scene playing out like Anakin Skywalker's in that other Return of the Something movie:<P>Smeagol: Luke -- I mean Frodo -- tell your gardener... you were right about me... *cough* *expire*<P>Frodo: Father!<P>Oh, no, wait. The lava would make that impossible. <P>I think the field of Cormallen is going to get absorbed into the Wedding Scene, but I still hope to hear one of my favorite lines there:<P>"O great glory and splendour! All my wishes have come true!" <P>-Lily

I don't know if anyone has been over to tORN lately, but if you take a look at the calender pics you begin to get a few idea's about some of the things PJ has planned out. <BR>Oh yeah, For one the Frodo naked in Minas Morgal scene is in, but all you see I think is Frodo from the waist up, they don't gratutious nakedness, it's just not Tolkien I knwo this as I have seen pics of Frodo in Orc's clothing, and I disagree with a lot of ppls views, I think that there will been given a large amount of screen time to Frodo's journey, because this is the main crux of the story, so far we have seen Frodo becoming mildly paranoid and less than sane but no more...<BR>Faramir...hmmm, character arc will be bigger, we know what happens to Saruman so thats pretty clear. NO scouring of the shire...early reports I read ages ago said that one of the final scenes shot included the journey to the West, Frodo was there, Gandalf and Galadriel were all confirmed.<BR>I don't think Gollum will jump.<BR>The battles will be mind blowing, but I want to ask one thing...<P>Please make it a good one PJ! we'll all sit through the 8 hr long extended edition if need be, but please please please make it good!