Ending of RotK

[Child of the 7th Age]

Does anyone know, or would anyone like to guess how the RotK will actually end? We know the Scouring of the Shire is out. Will it end right after Aragorn's crowning, at Grey Havens, or with Sam coming home and saying "Well, I'm back"? Any other suggestions? No chance I am sure of that epilogue when Sam talks to his children or of any other way of conveying what later happens to members of the Fellowship.<P>Also, how will PJ show Frodo's guilt and angst? Will we have scenes of him sick in bed at home, or will all that probably be cut out? Do we get to see Sam's marriage to Rosie, or just hear about it? (surely we will at least hear about it!)<P>Any ideas? <P>sharon, the 7th age hobbit<p>[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Morquesse]

What I would like, is that it ends with Sam reading out of the Red book to his kids. But probably what's going to happen is we see Frodo on the ship and that's the end.(Or it could be we'll see Arwen going to Lothlorien to die)<BR>About Frodo sick in bed, I'm pretty sure we'll see a bit of that at least. But I don't think they will do the Wedding of Sam and Rosie, we will probably just hear about it.<BR>What does everyone else think?<P>~M<p>[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Morquesse ]

[Astaldotathrawen]

Well I dont think it will end with Aragorn being crowned. Because I have already seen a listing of all the cast and one of the members is Sam's daugter. But I hope it does end with Sam coming in and saying "I'm home". Cause that was a really good ending for the book. And why aren't they putting inthe part about the scouring of the shire? That is a really important part in the story. Anyone know?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"We hobbits ought to stick together, and we will. I shall go, unless they chain me up. There must be someone with intelligence in the Party." <BR> ---Peregrin "Pippen" Took <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Elven-Maiden]

Since Galadriel started the frist movie with a narration, I think it might end with her narration as well. We know that Arwen dies in the end, so Aragorn, Merry, Pipin, Legolas, Gimli, Sam, Frodo.... everyone else is gone too. Arwen's death is the end of the mythical era of Middle Earth, so it would be fitting for Galadriel to finish the story on her boat on her way to the Havens.<P> At least, that's what I'm hoping/thinking.

[piosenniel]

I agree with Nevlachiel. I think it will end with a narration by Galadriel and a montage of shots from the coronation to Frodo leaving for the West, and the last shot will be of good, old Samwise with Rosie and Elanor surrounded by the bounty of their garden.

[Birdland]

I suspected that Frodo would not cross the borders of the Shire again, and would turn away as the other three returned home without him. <P>Of course, that doesn't help tie up the loose end of Sam having a 5-year-old daughter, as he seems to have in that photo we have all seen. <P>I can't see PJ ignoring Frodo's pain, and eliminating his Journey across the sea. PJ wouldn't tamper with canon that much...would he?

[avarrogion]

I really do hope that it will end as in the book!!

[Luinsewiel]

Do you think if they end RotK with the Grey Havens that they will explain where they're all going?the first time I read the book I was at a complete loss, I didn't understand that chapter at all ,And the general public doesn't know about the history of Middle Earth or anything and everything you learn in the sil (or the second time you read LotR).

[Ithaeliel]

I think that since Arwen dies it should end with a narration by Galadriel from the ship and shots or short scenes of the wedding of Aragorn and Arwen, a little bit of life back in the Shire, sailing from the Grey Havens, Samwise coming home, the deaths of Aragorn and Arwen, and lastly, Legolas and Gimli sailing over the sea.<p>[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Ithaeliel ]

[Lady Ancalima]

I agree with the narration part. Who said the scouring of the Shire was out?! I really hoped it wouldn't! I agree with the explaining of the Grey Havens as well. I was confused as to whether Frodo died or not!! But now I understand completely.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I think Galadriel narrating from the boat would bea good ending... Oh, yes, not just Legolas and Gimli going overseas but some indication ---maybe just a sentence--that Sam will come too someday.<P>Somone raised a good question about movie watchers understanding what it means to sail from Grey Havens. The whole thing about an immortal land, but one that does not bring immortality to mortals; the transition from the Dominion of Elves to the Dominion of Men--these are complicated themes. <P>How is he ever going to get this over, and still leave some sense of mystery. He may have to opt on the side of explanation, or mystery. It will be interesting to see.

[piosenniel]

Child - perhaps there will be narration at the beginning and end of the ROTK. The beginning could touch on some of those themes, such as the Grey Haven and the yearning of the elves to go West to the Immortal Land, and then at the end of the movie, the narration could wrap up with who was allowed to go besides the Elves.

[Kalla]

I don't really see how they could leave the Grey Havens out...its sorta important to teh ending. however, what I would like to see is Sam's garden. Although since we did not see wonderous gifts given I am doubtful we shall see it.

[Pips]

I'm really interested to know what the ending will be. I'm sad to see the scourching of the shire gone, it is one of my favorite charapters! As for the Grey Havens as the passionate Frodo fan I am, I think it's only right to have him sail the west to find peace.

[Birdland]

Child, I'm thinking I read somewhere that the movie would end with Frodo narrating, but I can't remember where or when. <P>It will be interesting to see how PJ pulls off the ending. He just can't leave out the whole theme of Frodo's angst and his seeking healing across the Sea, but how he's going to lay that all out is beyond me. Without the Scouring and the aftermath, I can't see how he'll be able to bring out Frodo's suffering, unless he addresses it while he's still in Minas Tirith. <P>Maybe it's best not to dwell on it to much. It just makes me anxious.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think that Legolas will probably have a line in the Two Towers explaining how the Elves go over the sea and probably another couple in RotK.<BR>I think it would be a pretty unsatisfactory ending if no-one understood where they were going.<BR>I do think there will be a little narration at the end. Aragorn was a great King and all, but I don't think they'll show Aragorn and Arwen dying and I don't think they'll show Legolas and Gimli going over the sea.<BR>I'm sure they'll do as in the book. Frodo coming back to the Shire for a couple of years, and ending with Sam in Bag End.

[*Varda*]

They're not going to have the scouring of the shire in it?! *sniff* i liked that chapter! How is Saruman going to completely die then? In the book Wormtongue kills him in that chapter, but will they have Saruman dying in the attack on Isengard? *head spinning* <P>I don't PJ would be stupid enough to leave out Frodo's pain/angst etc. I think he knows it's a key part of the ending. Obviously the ending will have to be quite explanatory to help the people who haven't read the books and don't know about Valinor etc. It would be good to end it with Sam saying 'I'm back' but it would also be good for Galadriel to narrate. *torn in two* Then again i suppose it can't really end with Sam speaking if there's Arwen's death scene, which i've heard rumours about. <P>Anyway, i'm beginning to ramble on. Basically i trust PJ enough in that i'm sure he's done the RotK ending in the best way he can, and i really can't wait to see what he's made of it.

have you guys read the alternat endings Tolkien wrote? maby they will use one of thows, Tolkien himself was never quite satisfide with the ending.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Birdland --<P>The movie ending with Frodo narrating????<P>That's an intriguing idea, and very different from Tolkien. One of my frustrations at the end of the book is that we only get to see Frodo' suffering from the outside in. The way the narration is set up, we don't ever really know what Frodo himself is thinking. We can guess why Frodo is so ill and also read what Tolkien later said in his letters, but so many questions are really unanswered. (I was actually thinking of doing a thread on this in Books to get people's opinions.)<P>The only exception I remember is the scene as they travel where Gandalf asks Frodo if he is hurting. Frodo replies yes and indicates that some hurting may not be able to be fixed in this world. And Gandalf says nothing.<P>To have Frodo narrate at the end would be for us to see things through his own eyes.<BR>That would not be easy to do, at least if PJ wants to say anything at all beyond the bare outline of the story. Maybe that's all he'd put, a few stark sentences about fading, sacrifice, and change. (At which point Child breaks down sobbing in the movie theater and has to be removed by her embarassed husband and children!)<P>Would he go beyond this? Probably not, but to have an idea of why it happened........ or even the perspective Frodo had on things.. Very tricky indeed!

[piosenniel]

Child - have you read this?<P><A HREF="http://home.mn.rr.com/karynmilos/essays/toodeeplyhurt.html" TARGET=_blank>FRODO</A>

[GreatWarg]

But you do have to remember that Peter is making this movie partly on what HE considered the important points. If he didn't consider the Scouring of the Shire to be important, then what can we expect? But it does go to the fact that if he does show Arwen dying, then he's skipping a major 200 years in between scenes! And if he didn't explain about Valinor, then people who haven't read the book will be thinking Frodo died. I do believe that Galadriel would also be doing the ending, perhaps even Elrond, because he ought to eplain WHY they are leaving, WHERE they are going, and so on.

[HCIsland]

I know the majority of us have read the books, but I'm sure many of us know people who went to these movies knowing little to nothing of what was going to happen.<P>On another board I've been frequenting, which is more film oriented than book, people keep coming in starting threads asking why did Frodo have to leave and where did he go. I was finding these threads perplexing as I felt the film established pretty clearly that the Elves were leaving Middle-earth to "cross the sea" and "go into the west" to the "undying lands". I mean, where did these people thing Arwen was going at the begining of the film? Frodo also explained that his wounds weren't healing, that they saved the Shire but not for him, and that Sam cannot always be torn in two.<P>I just don't know what else they wanted.<P>Knowing these threads were out there, I went to the movie with my mom and brother, neither of which knew what was going to happen. After the movie I asked them where they thought Frodo was going and why. Of course the words Tol Eressea never came out of their mouths. Still their answers showed a fine understanding of events.<P>I'm just wondering if others found the same issues coming up with the uninitiated or is it just some of the folks visiting this other board and a little on the dense side.<P>H.C.

[peonydeepdelver]

Actually HC, I'm the only one in my family that's read LotR. After I saw it on the 17th with my dad and little brother, my brother understood, but my dad didn't. So I explained it to him and then said, "Do you get it now?" He replied with, "Yea, I was just making sure you got it." <P>Not sure what made him think I didn't get it.

[TheSquireof Aragorn]

Wait, there are alternate endings? Can someone tell me where i might be able to find some? <BR>Thanks

[Gorwingel]

Well I don't think that you will be able to find alternate endings on the internet. But Peter Jackson has said that they did film multiple endings. I heard something about there maybe being five. They will probably end up on the EE in some way.<P>I will have to ask my friend who went with me to the midnight showing what she thought about the ending and if she understood it. But I think she got it. The only problem so far that she has told me that she had with it is that she thought that it went on too long.

[HCIsland]

Yeah, I think that is the most common complaint. As for the multiple endings, I think we already got a number of them in the theatrical cut.<P>H.C.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

HC, to answer your question: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'm just wondering if others found the same issues coming up with the uninitiated... <BR>...people keep coming in starting threads asking why did Frodo have to leave and where did he go... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A family member of mine who loves the movies and hasn't read the books asked me about why Frodo left - even after seeing the movie the second time. I think that those who don't know about Frodo's wounds not healing do not understand why he would want to leave. I had to explain it, then it was understood, but that's not really what should be happening when a movie ends, is it?!

[mark12_30]

My friends didn't understand Frodo's reasons for leaving either.<P>What was shown in the movie after Frodo was back in Bag End, was an uncomfortable shoulder and a sense of restlessness and 'disenchantment' with his old life. <P>What wasn't shown: an ongoing struggle with pain, and despair (including full days of bedridden, glassy-eyed delirium) and his near-complete withdrawal from society as a whole (after his brief, quiet stint as deputy mayor).<p>[ 10:42 AM January 13, 2004: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Jjudvven]

I'm hoping there will be some of that on the EE.

[HCIsland]

One of the most memorable images I have of Frodo from the book is him bedridden, staring off into space and fingering Arwen's pendent. Obviously we won't be getting Arwen's pendent, but there was always such a sense of irrecoverable loss with Frodo. I would say it was like he lost a limb, but it is even worse than that.<P>Perhaps PJ felt he really couldn't afford even a few more seconds on something like the image I mentioned above, but I would have liked to have seen something like that.<P>Maybe the extended edition.<P>H.C.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>One of the most memorable images I have of Frodo from the book is him bedridden, staring off into space and fingering Arwen's pendent. Obviously we won't be getting Arwen's pendent, but there was always such a sense of irrecoverable loss with Frodo. I would say it was like he lost a limb, but it is even worse than that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly. We never get much of a feeling of that. I did like the 'how do you pick up the threads of an old life' part, but that really doesn't come close enough. We (or at least the non-reading audience, & those of the book-reading ones that are trying to watch the movie without letting it lean on the books) get stuck with the 'why exactly is he leaving?' question. I've heard others that thought he left because 'his shoulder hurt', or 'because he had his finger bitten off'. Although those obviously played parts in it, I don't think that PJ got it across all that well.

[Trippo The Hippo]

I will have to ask my none book friend if he got it. Did any of you have a problem with the way PJ seemingly tried to trick the audience into thinking it was over by fading to black multiple times. Sometimes it was so long that the audience would get up. Now I am quite proud that PJ ended with the ending of the book and I wasn't gonna leave my seat till I hear Sams line. But was it really nessecesary to trick the audience?<p>[ 9:00 PM January 15, 2004: Message edited by: Trippo The Hippo ]